Christians cannot be moral

[The GM]

Eh, I thought the title of this post was just as inflamatory and catagorically insulting as 1inC's thread.

Lessee here, how can Christians be immoral...Hmmm...that's right, in much the same ways that an atheist could be. In fact, I bet Wiccans, Pagans, and Catholics can also be immoral, by doing, well, immoral type things.

To clarify, I'm not an atheist, a wiccan, a pagan, or a *shudder* catholic , but I can't see how any of those beliefs have a damn thing to do with whether you are moral or not. Doesn't good moral fiber come from decisions to do the right thing, no matter your philosophy?

edit: typo

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Good moral fiber comes with treating cats well.

Puss: OK, that's twice in one day, Marquis. What the hell do you want?

 

[El Greco]

I think that the major problem is not that Christians cannot be moral. It is that some of them cannot be oral. For religious reasons, of course.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Good fiber comes from eating oatmeal.

Anyway, I don't understand how any group could think they have a lock on morality. All one would have to do is look through history to find example of both moral and immoral behavior by people of every creed.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Actually, in my own view of morality, Christians cannot be moral if they are acting morally in the expectation of heavenly reward. Their intentions are inherently selfish if they do good for gain. While it's possible for a Christian to do good without thinking of possible reward...it seems unlikely. I'd have to say any purportedly moral act by a Christian would be suspect.

 

[The GM]

Actually, in my own view of morality, Christians cannot be moral if they are acting morally in the expectation of heavenly reward. Their intentions are inherently selfish if they do good for gain. While it's possible for a Christian to do good without thinking of possible reward...it seems unlikely. I'd have to say any purportedly moral act by a Christian would be suspect.

I dunno...that could be an over generalization. There's lots of reasons to good things, and there's lots of tangible rewards for doing those things. Christians are not exempt from this.

 

[Darat]

I disagree with your thread title; I think Christians can be moral. (I know it was a joke.)

My belief is that humans have "morality" because we have empathy. Consider what most people say are good morals (e.g. don't murder, don't steal, don't lie) they all have a requirement in common to a) understand how those actions would make me feel and b) use my empathy to consider how they would make someone else feel.

From that starting point a whole system can be developed and whilst we sometimes dress it up in fancy clothing (e.g. a religion) I don't believe that a Christian only acts in a moral way because there is the threat of God hanging over them, at best (worse?) that is just reinforcement of a common human behaviour.

 

[The GM]

I disagree with your thread title; I think Christians can be moral. (I know it was a joke.)

My belief is that humans have "morality" because we have empathy. Consider what most people say are good morals (e.g. don't murder, don't steal, don't lie) they all have a requirement in common to a) understand how those actions would make me feel and b) use my empathy to consider how they would make someone else feel.

From that starting point a whole system can be developed and whilst we sometimes dress it up in fancy clothing (e.g. a religion) I don't believe that a Christian only acts in a moral way because there is the threat of God hanging over them, at best (worse?) that is just reinforcement of a common human behaviour.

There ya go. My point exactly.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I dunno...that could be an over generalization. There's lots of reasons to good things, and there's lots of tangible rewards for doing those things. Christians are not exempt from this.

I was being inflammatory. I do think the intent matters in making judgments...but people are complicated and full of depths, and motives are rarely unmixed. A local congressional candidate recently tried to revive someone who had a heart attack at a campaign event. He gave the guy CPR, and I'm sure he was mostly just wanting the guy to live...but I'm also sure, that for at least an instant, the thought crossed his mind that it would be a hell of a boost in the polls if he saved someone's life. I'm also guessing the candidate feels guilty for thinking that.

It's murky when you get into motives.

 

[The GM]

It's murky when you get into motives.

That's also a good point. This is a good thinking point for me as it opens up a lot of questions about morality and 'why we do it.' I'm gonna have to mull that over some. Nice.

 

[cajela]

It's sometimes argued that all morals are selfish, because deep down you only do good in order to make yourself feel good.

If that's so, I'd like a world full of that kind of selfish people, thanks.

 

[EdipisReks]

there is nothing wrong with selfishness, or doing good things for selfish reasons.

 

[phildonnia]

Here's the ultimate test of Christian morality:

Would you voluntarily give up your seat in heaven, in exchange for 10 hellbound people you don't know being admitted to heaven?

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Here's the ultimate test of Christian morality:

Would you voluntarily give up your seat in heaven, in exchange for 10 hellbound people you don't know being admitted to heaven?

Most Christians I know (not all, I really do mean most) wouldn't give up their wristwatch for that.

 

[pgwenthold]

Actually, in my own view of morality, Christians cannot be moral if they are acting morally in the expectation of heavenly reward. Their intentions are inherently selfish if they do good for gain. While it's possible for a Christian to do good without thinking of possible reward...it seems unlikely. I'd have to say any purportedly moral act by a Christian would be suspect.

Let's see, I don't believe in god, but I don't kill, cheat, or steal because I care for my fellow human beings, and I would feel bad about myself if I did something that would cause them harm.

OTOH, so-called "christians" like 1inChrist have admitted that the only reason they behave is because they are afraid of the punishment from God, and if not for the threat of hell they would do whatever they wanted, including stealing, raping, and killing. When he gets to heaven, he is going to be too busy basking in the glory of God to care about all the souls being tortured in hell.

And I am the immoral one.

 

[Riddick]

Here's the ultimate test of Christian morality:

Would you voluntarily give up your seat in heaven, in exchange for 10 hellbound people you don't know being admitted to heaven?

Why would I deny the hellbound their preference?

 

[heath]

Any Christian that asks non Christians "why don't you sin if you don't believe in god?" is not a moral person.

 

[heath]

Aditionally I am glad people that ask that question have religion. Imagine how they'd act if they didn't?!

 

[c4ts]

Why would I deny the hellbound their preference?

Because Hell is a place of FIRE! and PAIN! and BLOOD! and a whole lot of other REALLY NASTY STUFF! If you saw a car that was driving toward a huge pothole and the driver didn't see it, you're supposed to warn them, or something like that. If you saw ten drivers headed for it and the only way to stop them was to lay your fat body right in front of them, you'd do it, just like Jesus did so everybody could go to heaven. At least, you that's what you were supposed to do.

Congratulations Riddick, you flunked the Christian morality test with flying colors. You're on the same boat as the rest of us, so my advice is don't complain.