Christians and Reality

[Radrook]

In other words, you ignore blatant contradictions by putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "la la la!"

I love this part: "This requires that I not cause the Bible to seem to contradict itself -"

A better example of a closed-minded person you will not find.

Bible books are like chapters.
They do not constitute the whole message.

As I previously pointed out: an integrated approach to the Bible requires that we view everything it says within the larger context. N one would attempt to take a paragraph out of Darwin's Origin of Species, conclude something completely opposed to the rest of the book, and then claim it as legitimately Darwin's. Such a tactic would be readily recognized as defective. In the same manner to take a scripture from Genesis and understand it in such a way that it negates all other scriptures that should shed light on it is also a very faulty way of seeking understanding of scripture. In fact, most biblical misunderstandings come exactly from such a policy.

So I am not just singing la la la. I am saying that the interpretation you are giving to the Genesis account is completely contrary to the context in which the book of genesis finds itself--the whole Bible.

 

[Radrook]

Unfortunately, this is the standard tactic from the 'Inspired Word of God' crowd - state your beliefs, throw out 20 lbs of hogwash to show why there really isn't a contradiction, IGNORE HISTORY ENTIRELY, and when things get too hot, call out, "Well, that's what you believe, I'll never change my mind, God bless".

Luckily, most people here grow out of that stage along with belief in Santa Claus and honest politicians.

The fact is, the authorship of most of the Bible is questionable, at best. Take, for example, this article about the authorship of the Gospels:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb1.htm

Here, we see there were really 50 gospels, all taken apart and reassembled into a simplified and mythologically significant 4.

And these are among the most important works of the Bible! What of the rest of the Bible? How much of the Book has been hacked and reassembled? How much 'inspired word of God' has been tossed out on its ear before, and how much once considered bull was suddenly included as 'inspired' at different points in history?

The evidence is enormous, and the logic infallible: the Bible is just a collection of works compiled by mortals which changes at various stages in history to accomadate prevailing belief systems of those times.

I have reviewed many of such accusations and came away with the distinct impression that those making them are quite ready willing and more than able to use deceit, misinterpretations, slanting, or any other method at their disposal to denigrade the Bible. Because of that I no longer waste my time reading endless cleverly concocted reams of what such individuals say since I can employ my time in much more productive things.

 

[ReasonableDoubt]

... I no longer waste my time reading endless cleverly concocted reams of what such individuals say since I can employ my time in much more productive things.

You cowardly evade anything and everything as soon as evidence is offered or required.

 

[Z]

Yep - because if the evidence is at all grounded in anthropological and archeological finds, studies of older texts, direct translations, real history, or actual fact, it must therefore be deceitful and slanted.

Radkook starts from the premise that the Bible (KJV, I assume) is right, and all else is wrong. Yet he blatantly ignores the fact that there are NO modern Bibles that are accurate or correct - in fact, when faced with the evidence that the Bible has been recomposed and reconstructed in often contradictory ways, he just ignores these facts and claims to have 'no time or wish' to 'go to the effort' of understanding this. "They're just wrong and I'm right. The facts are all lies and deceptions; my warped beliefs are true".

The simple fact is, you CAN'T look at the Bible as a whole; it is a COLLECTION of stories WRITTEN BY DIFFERENT AUTHORS - which means that it is GOING to contradict itself. There's no 'Inspired by God' bull going on - if there were, then we wouldn't have numerous and sundry translations of the Bible floating around that contradict each other.

The evidence is overwhelmingly against the 'Inspired' crowd - so of course, they must resort to the 'LA LA LA' tactic. Else, their house of cards comes crashing down.

 

[Radrook]

Yep - because if the evidence is at all grounded in anthropological and archeological finds, studies of older texts, direct translations, real history, or actual fact, it must therefore be deceitful and slanted.

Radkook starts from the premise that the Bible (KJV, I assume) is right, and all else is wrong. Yet he blatantly ignores the fact that there are NO modern Bibles that are accurate or correct - in fact, when faced with the evidence that the Bible has been recomposed and reconstructed in often contradictory ways, he just ignores these facts and claims to have 'no time or wish' to 'go to the effort' of understanding this. "They're just wrong and I'm right. The facts are all lies and deceptions; my warped beliefs are true".

The simple fact is, you CAN'T look at the Bible as a whole; it is a COLLECTION of stories WRITTEN BY DIFFERENT AUTHORS - which means that it is GOING to contradict itself. There's no 'Inspired by God' bull going on - if there were, then we wouldn't have numerous and sundry translations of the Bible floating around that contradict each other.

The evidence is overwhelmingly against the 'Inspired' crowd - so of course, they must resort to the 'LA LA LA' tactic. Else, their house of cards comes crashing down.

Then there shouldn't be a need to misrepresent, or otherwise twist things around so that the Bible looks ridiculous should there? Yet you people constantly do this. So if I do not wished to be further exposed to such inanities it is because of the experiences I have had with the type of tactics you people use which are unethical and unprofessional have convinced me it is a total waste of my precious limited time.

To be honest, it really doesn't matter to me how you think.
I grant each person the right to choose his or her own concepts by which to live life. That's why I prefer discussions as opposed to the efforts necessary at trying to convince others who really feel quite comfy just where they are. So if they feel comfy there--why should I try to make them become fidgety?

I leave debates for those who enjoy ping-ponging ideas back and forth ad infinitum and with no end in view and who believe that they have all the time in the world or else have some hopes of converting others or saving, as you would probably say.

I don't think along those lines.


BTW
I hope that your misspelling of my name is not a prelude to ad hominem attacks. They are totally unnecessary.



Bye!

 

[Z]

To be honest, it really doesn't matter to me how you think. I grant each person the right to choose his or her own concepts by which to live life. That's why I prefer discussions as opposed to the efforts necessary at trying to convince others who really feel quite comfy just where they are. So if they feel comfy there--why should I try to make them become fidgety? I leave debates for those who enjoy ping-ponging ideas back and forth ad infinitum and with no end in view and who believe that they have all the time in the world or else have some hopes of converting others or saving, as you would probably say. I don't think along those lines

If this is true, why post here at all? If you don't care how anyone else thinks, why argue at all? If you won't discuss - and discussion implies debate, since not everyone agrees with you - then you have no purpose in starting a discussion.

In short, if you are unwilling to debate and discuss your views, then you shouldn't post said views in this forum, nor respond to people's posts.

As to

Then there shouldn't be a need to misrepresent, or otherwise twist things around so that the Bible looks ridiculous should there? Yet you people constantly do this. So if I do not wished to be further exposed to such inanities it is because of the experiences I have had with the type of tactics you people use which are unethical and unprofessional have convinced me it is a total waste of my precious limited time.

You're right - there IS no need to misrepresent or twist the evidence... the Bible looks ridiculous quite on its own with out any help from anyone else. No tactics - only the facts.

BTW

Radkook was a typo, and I apologize. No need for name-calling - you look plenty ridiculous without it.

 

[scribble]

To be honest, it really doesn't matter to me how you think.
I grant each person the right to choose his or her own concepts by which to live life. That's why I prefer discussions as opposed to the efforts necessary at trying to convince others who really feel quite comfy just where they are. So if they feel comfy there--why should I try to make them become fidgety?

I'll say this in very small words, because I'm sick of begging you to please try to teach us something if you have something to teach:

I am not comfortable where I am. I want to be convinced that the Bible isn't a shambles thrown together by human beings. I want to believe it's written by God. I want to believe the Council at Nicea wasn't just a bunch of guys voting on what should and should be scripture.

But you refuse to provide information.

The only possible conclusion at this point is that you haven't got jack ◊◊◊◊ to back up what you say and couldn't if you wanted.

If I sound angry, it's because I am. This is at least the third time someone has come to this forum claiming to have knowledge I would *love* to share and refused to give it out for *BULLS**T* *FALSE* reasons. This is at least the third time I've had to BEG someone to share what they know here. It's f**king humiliating, and it's the last time, too. I'm coming to the realization that people who pull this kind of childish bullplop do it because *they don't know anything*.

Now, either tell me why I and the Biblical scholars are wrong, or shut the ◊◊◊◊ up and get your ass to a board where they will eat your bulls**t with a smile.

 

[scribble]

As I previously pointed out: an integrated approach to the Bible requires that we view everything it says within the larger context. N one would attempt to take a paragraph out of Darwin's Origin of Species, conclude something completely opposed to the rest of the book, and then
claim it as legitimately Darwin's.

Funny, this is exactly what you have done with Paul's comments on Adam and Eve.

EXACTLY

Hypocrite.

 

[Radrook]

I'll say this in very small words, because I'm sick of begging you to please try to teach us something if you have something to teach:

I am not comfortable where I am. I want to be convinced that the Bible isn't a shambles thrown together by human beings. I want to believe it's written by God. I want to believe the Council at Nicea wasn't just a bunch of guys voting on what should and should be scripture.

But you refuse to provide information.

The only possible conclusion at this point is that you haven't got jack ◊◊◊◊ to back up what you say and couldn't if you wanted.

If I sound angry, it's because I am. This is at least the third time someone has come to this forum claiming to have knowledge I would *love* to share and refused to give it out for *BULLS**T* *FALSE* reasons. This is at least the third time I've had to BEG someone to share what they know here. It's f**king humiliating, and it's the last time, too. I'm coming to the realization that people who pull this kind of childish bullplop do it because *they don't know anything*.

Now, either tell me why I and the Biblical scholars are wrong, or shut the ◊◊◊◊ up and get your ass to a board where they will eat your bulls**t with a smile.

If you bust a vein in your brain due to high blood pressure caused by your allowing yourself to become angry you will have only yourself to blame. I assure you, once that happens you will regret not exercizing more self-control.

As I recently explained, I meant you no harm.
I also apologized two times.
So why not simply let it go?

I was willing to continue our discussion.
But now with this demonstration I am not sure whether that would be wise or possible.

Anyway, once again I apologize if I in any way manner or form offended you.

God Bless.

 

[scribble]

If you bust a vein in your brain due to high blood pressure caused by your allowing yourself to become angry you will have only yourself to blame. I assure you, once that happens you will regret not exercizing more self-control.

If this is all the more response you plan to give, then I was right to decide that you back off because you are incapable of defending your views.

Try studying the Bible someday. You might just learn something.

 

[Radrook]

If this is all the more response you plan to give, then I was right to decide that you back off because you are incapable of defending your views.

Try studying the Bible someday. You might just learn something.

No it was not.
As I said previously, I had resumed our discussion by sending a reply to the last post on the discussioin thread. So I was totally taken aback by this since I was expecting simply a continuation.
I know that you are a decent person and that such outbursts do not really represent you.


So I will continue to have the high opinion of you that I had prior to your outburst. In fact, I consider the slate wiped clean.

Anyway, disagreements will happen on forums.
They are not worth getting an ulcer over nor developing some other chronic stress-related illness.

In any case, I found our conversations very educational and instructive. Thank you for your time and your previous patience.

God Bless

BTW

Yes you are right.
I should have been more careful in choosing the subject for my post. My mistake. Won't happen again. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[scribble]

As I said previously, I had resumed our discussion by sending a reply to the last post on the discussioin thread.

THIS IS THE THREAD WE WERE DISCUSSING ON.

If those are the views you prefer to hold then I guess we simply disagree. Nothing further will be gained by needlessly extending the dialogue.

Thanks for the interesting converstation.

God Bless [/B]

THIS IS YOUR LAST POST RELATED TO OUR DISCUSSION.

I had resumed our discussion by sending a reply to the last post on the discussioin thread.

What the hell are you smoking?

 

[scribble]

So I was totally taken aback by this since I was expecting simply a continuation.

I know that you are a decent person and that such outbursts do not really represent you.

[/B]

Go back and read the last page, Radrook. Your claims about being willing to continue the debate are a LIE. This is a SMOKESCREEN. Look at what you WROTE. Look at what *I* wrote. I've begged you at least TWICE to PLEASE enlighten me. The first time, I didn't even do it in a rude tone of voice.


Now, I'm willing to accept that you confused some threads and responded to me elsewhere. POint me at it if so. If not, respond now. If neither, shove off and go to a board where they put up with that kind of game.

 

[Radrook]

THIS IS THE THREAD WE WERE DISCUSSING ON.



THIS IS YOUR LAST POST RELATED TO THE DISCUSSION.




What the hell are you smoking?

Not smoking anything.
I sent a reply and somehow it got mixed up and did not reach you or else it did not upload properly. Please try to cease the accusations. They lead nowhere. Try giving a person the benefit of the doubt. Sorry about your previous experiences and about having added to them unwittingly. My bad. We all make mistakes even when we don't want to.
That''s why Christ died for us. Right?



Romans 7:

14. We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[3] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21. So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23. but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
25. Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!

 

[scribble]

Try giving a person the benefit of the doubt. Sorry about your previous experiences and about having added to them unwittingly. My bad. We all make mistakes even when we don't want to.
That''s why Christ died for us. Right?

Forgiven. Forgotten. I'll be anxiously awaiting your rebuttal to my previous comments. No ill will held over. I may be quick to anger, but I'm willing to forgive as well.

 

[Radrook]

Forgiven. Forgotten. I'll be anxiously awaiting your rebuttal to my previous comments. No ill will held over. I may be quick to anger, but I'm willing to forgive as well.

Thanks!
Will see if I can get back on track.
Maybe by tommorw.
God Bless. : )

 

[scribble]

Thanks!
Will see if I can get back on track.
Maybe by tommorw.
God Bless. : )

I know you're not starting <a href=http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42820> new threads</a> while I'm still waiting for answers on your old ones -- right??

That kind of behaviour might make me angry.

You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

 

[Radrook]

I know you're not starting <a href=http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42820> new threads</a> while I'm still waiting for answers on your old ones -- right??

That kind of behaviour might make me angry.

You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

Vintage the Hulk! LOL!

I will try to unravel where we left off.
If you could halp me out by placing a link it would be apreciated.
Thanx


BTW

My only concern about you being angered is that you might catch the attention of a moderator and get banned my friend. Since I consider you a decent person who makes fine contributions to this forum to me that would be an unfortunate event.

God Bless!

 

[Ipecac]

Bible books are like chapters.
They do not constitute the whole message.

As I previously pointed out: an integrated approach to the Bible requires that we view everything it says within the larger context. N one would attempt to take a paragraph out of Darwin's Origin of Species, conclude something completely opposed to the rest of the book, and then claim it as legitimately Darwin's. Such a tactic would be readily recognized as defective. In the same manner to take a scripture from Genesis and understand it in such a way that it negates all other scriptures that should shed light on it is also a very faulty way of seeking understanding of scripture. In fact, most biblical misunderstandings come exactly from such a policy.

So I am not just singing la la la. I am saying that the interpretation you are giving to the Genesis account is completely contrary to the context in which the book of genesis finds itself--the whole Bible.

Have you been to a church within your lifetime? I've been to church loads of times and all they do is teach selected passages. The lessons are always focused on a few verses, often verses from different books. There's no attempt to put anything into context, just picking and choosing verses that support whatever point they're trying to make.

The christian church does not teach context. They cherry-pick.

 

[scribble]

I will try to unravel where we left off.

Have you tried? So far, I don't believe you have.

If you could halp me out by placing a link it would be apreciated.

They're at the top of this page. They're labeled '3' and maybe '2'. It doesn't take too long to scan through this thread and look for my shiny happy avatar. I don't believe you've invested even the minimal effort suggested by your use of the word "try."

I gave you plenty of time. My approaching you in kindness to remind you of your promise to address my concerns is only because I'm pretty convinced the entire effort is futile and you have no intention of sharing your knowledge. I'm beginning to become resigned to this fact.