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Chopra on Skeptics

Brown

Penultimate Amazing
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Aug 3, 2001
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The Perils of Skepticism by Deepak Chopra.

Chopra doesn't like skeptics. He really doesn't. And he lets them have it:
... Most of my stinging darts come from skeptics. Over the years I've found that ill-tempered guardians of scientific truth can't abide speculative thinking. And as the renowned Richard Dawkins has proved, they are also very annoyed by a nuisance named God.

... No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others. Typically they sit by the side of the road with a sign that reads "You're Wrong" so that every passerby, whether an Einstein, Gandhi, Newton, or Darwin, can gain the benefit of their illuminated skepticism. For make no mistake, the skeptics of the past were as eager to shoot down new theories as they are to worship the old ones once science has validated them.

It never occurs to skeptics that a sense of wonder is paramount, even for scientists. Especially for scientists. Einstein insisted, in fact, that no great discovery can be made without a sense of awe before the mysteries of the universe. Skeptics know in advance -- or think they know -- what right thought is. Right thought is materialistic, statistical, data-driven, and always, always, conformist. Wrong thought is imaginative, provisional, often fantastic, and no respecter of fixed beliefs.
Well! That certainly puts me in MY place.

Before going further, I should mention that I have written about good old Deepak before. Here's a link to Chopra vs. Dawkins, in which good old Deepak rips apart Dawkins's "The God Delusion" without apparently bothering to take the time to actually read the book. Good old Deepak gets rather pissy with Dawkins in the above-quoted passage, saying that skeptics in general, and Dawkins in particular, "are also very annoyed by a nuisance named God." Apart from the apparently intentional insult to the effect that "skeptics KNOW they are wrong about the Almighty, but they just won't admit it" (which was the justification in days past for making atheism a crime, and a capital crime at that, but that's another story), what good old Deepak neglects to mention is that HIS view of "God" is inconsistent with that of most major religions:
[Chopra's] argument seems to be in favor of a deity that is not accepted by the majority of theists. It would be odd for Bible-believers to come out in support of his position, as he views the Almighty in a manner at odds with their theology.
The assetion that "No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others." This says nothing about science, but it sure says a lot about good old Deepak. His "knowledge" is pitiful. At best, he has not done his homework.

The most celebrated scientific discoveries were made by people who questioned the authorities (or the widely accepted dogma of what was true). The authorities held that the Earth was flat, that heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones, that planets moved in circular orbits (or with epicycles), that the Earth is at the center of all there is, that the known universe is infinitesimally smaller than we now know it to be, that continents do not move, that there was a flood a few thousand years ago that wiped out nearly all life on Earth, that the genetic structure of creatures does not change over great lengths of time, and so on.

Many of these authorities had no real evidence to support their dogma. But they held to it because it seemed right to them and they were smart people.

Kinda like good old Deepak. He's smart. And he don't need no stinkin' evidence!

And skeptics never have a sense of wonder, he says. Apparently he never listened to Carl Sagan or Isaac Asimov or Phil Plait (well, that one's probably understandable) or for that matter, Richard Dawkins.

As I've noted before, Julia Sweeney concluded thusly: "Deepak Chopra is full of ****!"

This means he is not credible. He is not credible because he does not do his homework, he deliberately mischaracterizes the points of his critics, he is--to be blunt--willfully ignorant about a number of things, and worst of all, he is unwilling to educate himself. Yet he is quick to judge others as closed-minded. He therefore also suffers a serious blow to his credibility by being a hypocrite.

Edited by Locknar: 
While ok in 2007, cursing (masked or otherwise) is against the current Membership Agreement.
 
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BWHAAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA! "No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others." No, Deepak, all major scientific discoveries or societal avancements come from those brave innovators who blindly accept what they're told and do nothing to test it. :rolleyes: What a prat.
 
I caught a few minutes of Chopra on The View a couple of days ago. My wife, having watched it for some time before I showed up, said that the entire panel (or whatever they are called) looked as though they did not understand a word he was saying. This is actually pretty funny because what I caught him saying was that the material in the human body constantly turns over (calcium in the bones in six months, iron in the blood in three days, whatever, etc) which is I suppose basically true. What he went onto say is that it's also true of the DNA and "you can affect this". So it was really the same old BS.

I have posted a quote from Choppy on this forum in the past the wherein he praises a book by a friend about how you can maintain perfect vision by following the woo techniques presented therein. I wonder if he got his money back to help pay for his glasses? My wife also mentioned that he said earlier that he had heart problems. Too much adulterated Ayurvedic medicine? :rolleyes:
 
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We're "Equal Opportunity Douchebags" here at JREF. We make fun of Dawkins, too:

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Sitting, as he does, astride the woo community like some brooding mother hen defending her woo chicks, Chopra has all the credibility of a Wile E. Coyote when it comes to science and the meaning of science.

Bugs Bunny? Not there's a skeptic!


M.
 
This is actually pretty funny because what I caught him saying was that the material in the human body constantly turns over (calcium in the bones in six months, iron in the blood in three days, whatever, etc) which is I suppose basically true.

Several years ago, I heard a lecture where he discussed this concept. Don't know how true it is, but it seems plausible. To me, its a fascinating concept to consider.

Otherwise, I don't recall getting much out of the lecture.
 
Wasn't one of Einstein's greatest ideas basically summed down to the concept of,"Your wrong. There is no ether."
 
I am relatively new to skepticism but at this point I have not encountered a skeptic who couldn't just as easily be labeled pro-science, and science has a tendency to debunk silly woo-woo claims and skeptics have a tendency to point it out.

My guess is that Einstein, Darwin and Newton were scientists first and foremost, formulating hypotheses to be tested, materialistic and data driven AND non-conformist, imaginative and filled with a sense of wonder. The best of both worlds. Chopra and his ilk are imaginative non-conformists filled with wonder? What great historical strides have we made with thought like that? That might make for good poetry but it doesn't make for good science.
 
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I caught a few minutes of Chopra on The View a couple of days ago. My wife, having watched it for some time before I showed up, said that the entire panel (or whatever they are called) looked as though they did not understand a word he was saying. This is actually pretty funny because what I caught him saying was that the material in the human body constantly turns over (calcium in the bones in six months, iron in the blood in three days, whatever, etc) which is I suppose basically true. What he went onto say is that it's also true of the DNA and "you can affect this". So it was really the same old BS.

I have posted a quote from Choppy on this forum in the past the wherein he praises a book by a friend about how you can maintain perfect vision by following the woo techniques presented therein. I wonder if he got his money back to help pay for his glasses? My wife also mentioned that he said earlier that he had heart problems. Too much adulterated Ayurvedic medicine? :rolleyes:

He also had a best selling book called Grow Younger, Live Longer about how to reverse the aging process. Seems to me he's aging right along with the rest of us. :rolleyes:
 
By coincidence, I've just posted about him on Badscience...

Just heard the last in the series of A Good Read on Radio 4, wherein Dave the drummer from Blur quite effectively destroyed Chopra's Synchrodestiny in a couple of minutes. Very calm and sensible - is he really a drummer?

Apparently, it will be on iPlayer soon. Otherwise, it is repeated on Friday. At 23:00.
 
Chopra is a name I recognise, though I am unfamiliar with anything he has ever actually done.

Have I missed anything of significance?
 
The most celebrated scientific discoveries were made by people who questioned the authorities (or the widely accepted dogma of what was true). The authorities held that the Earth was flat, that heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones, that planets moved in circular orbits (or with epicycles), that the Earth is at the center of all there is, that the known universe is infinitesimally smaller than we now know it to be, that continents do not move, that there was a flood a few thousand years ago that wiped out nearly all life on Earth, that the genetic structure of creatures does not change over great lengths of time, and so on.

Many of these authorities had no real evidence to support their dogma. But they held to it because it seemed right to them and they were smart people.
You seem to have turned things around here.
In those examples the naysaying skeptics were the ones defending the currently accepted orthodoxy.
Just as, today, the JREF-type skeptics defend the currently accepted orthodoxies.

I think Chopra is quite right to say that people of that cast of mind haven't made any major scientific discoveries. I certainly can't think of any.
They're much more about defending accepted theories and thereby perhaps having a bit of that prestige rubbing off on them. Certainly they enjoy the sense of power to dismiss and ridicule they think it's given them.
It's an eminently safe approach to take, but nothing much new gets discovered by keeping your ship within the harbour walls.
 
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The Perils of Skepticism by Deepak Chopra.

Chopra doesn't like skeptics. He really doesn't. And he lets them have it: Well! That certainly puts me in MY place.


Wow, maybe he actually might haven had a shoot if he had just looked at his target instead of just apparently looking and shooting in some other direction.

Why is it that people like Deepak Chopra, who are apparently given to highly speculative assertions, claim skeptics are just opposed to speculations when we are simply opposed to wild speculations being presented as something other than simply, well, wild speculations?
 
You seem to have turned things around here.
In those examples the naysaying skeptics were the ones defending the currently accepted orthodoxy.
Just as, today, the JREF-type skeptics defend the currently accepted orthodoxies.

I don't think you've characterized it accurately. Folk and Eastern medicine and established religions are accepted orthodoxies, for example. The distinction seems to be on the basis of evidence (as per my sig), rather than whether or not something is orthodox. Ideas formed in the absence of evidence are suspect, those formed in the presence of evidence are less so.

I think Chopra is quite right to say that people of that cast of mind haven't made any major scientific discoveries. I certainly can't think of any.
They're much more about defending accepted theories and thereby perhaps having a bit of that prestige rubbing off on them. Certainly they enjoy the sense of power to dismiss and ridicule they think it's given them.
It's an eminently safe approach to take, but nothing much new gets discovered by keeping your ship within the harbour walls.

Can you give an example of speculation in the absence of evidence which turned out to be an important scientific discovery? The discoveries listed previously - properties of gravity, the nature/size/age of the universe, evolution through natural selection, continental drift - are examples of speculation in the presence of evidence.

Linda
 
While I can certainly understand being very cautious with claims concerning the paranormal, sometimes it does seem like some Skeptics couldn't believe in it if it bit them in the butt, regardless of the claims of "show me the evidence and I will believe", it is impossible for some skeptics to believe, no matter what.
 
I'm in the middle of watching a Youtube video on the devastating results of satanic ritual abuse claims. I think I'll pass on Chopra's call for fantastical thinking.
 
While I can certainly understand being very cautious with claims concerning the paranormal, sometimes it does seem like some Skeptics couldn't believe in it if it bit them in the butt, regardless of the claims of "show me the evidence and I will believe", it is impossible for some skeptics to believe, no matter what.

Can you give me an example of a claim or claims which you think should be taken more seriously?

Linda
 

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