cholesterol and heart disease: the final word

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

I know medical science is not as precise as computer science that said, a LOT of things have been said about the relation between "bad cholesterol" and heart disease, but the more I read the more confused I am. Some studies show that they are linked.. some other studies claim the contrary, and all of them are being made by scientists... what to believe?

Because, on the layman side, it gets worse.

 

[Dancing David]

Uh, having high LDLs is associated with risk as are high triglycerides, but so are smoking and lack of exercise.

American Heart Association Cholesterol guidelines:
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=183#HDL

Your Total Blood (or Serum) Cholesterol Level

Less than 200 mg/dL: Desirable
If your LDL, HDL and triglyceride levels are also at desirable levels and you have no other risk factors for heart disease, total blood cholesterol below 200 mg/dL puts you at relatively low risk of coronary heart disease. Even with a low risk, however, it’s still smart to eat a heart-healthy diet, get regular physical activity and avoid tobacco smoke. Have your cholesterol levels checked every five years or as your doctor recommends.

...
Your HDL (Good) Cholesterol Level



With HDL (good) cholesterol, higher levels are better. Low HDL cholesterol (less than 40 mg/dL for men, less than 50 mg/dL for women) puts you at higher risk for heart disease. In the average man, HDL cholesterol levels range from 40 to 50 mg/dL. In the average woman, they range from 50 to 60 mg/dL. An HDL cholesterol of 60 mg/dL or higher gives some protection against heart disease.

...
Your LDL (Bad) Cholesterol Level


The lower your LDL cholesterol, the lower your risk of heart attack and stroke. In fact, it's a better gauge of risk than total blood cholesterol. In general, LDL levels fall into these categories:


LDL Cholesterol Levels

Less than 100 mg/dL
Optimal

100 to 129 mg/dL
Near Optimal/ Above Optimal

130 to 159 mg/dL
Borderline High

160 to 189 mg/dL
High

190 mg/dL and above
Very High

...

Your Triglyceride Level

Triglyceride is a form of fat. People with high triglycerides often have a high total cholesterol level, including high LDL (bad) cholesterol and low HDL (good) cholesterol levels.

Your triglyceride level will fall into one of these categories:

Normal: less than 150 mg/dL
Borderline-High: 150–199 mg/dL
High: 200–499 mg/dL
Very High: 500 mg/dL

Americam Diabetes association
http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/prevention/pre-diabetes/pre-diabetes-faqs.html

Q: Who should get tested for pre-diabetes?
A: If you are overweight and age 45 or older, you should be checked for pre-diabetes during your next routine medical office visit. If your weight is normal and you're over age 45, you should ask your doctor during a routine office visit if testing is appropriate. For adults younger than 45 and overweight, your doctor may recommend testing if you have any other risk factors for diabetes or pre-diabetes. These include high blood pressure, low HDL cholesterol and high triglycerides, a family history of diabetes, a history of gestational diabetes or giving birth to a baby weighing more than 9 pounds, or belonging to an ethnic or minority group at high risk for diabetes.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

There is no secret formula to nutrtion. It is very simple.


Eat fresh, real foods. Mostly plants (at least 5 a day). Lots of fiber. Don't eat a lot of red meat or processed foods.

Be active and exercize.

That's it. That's all there is too it. There is no need to worry about sugars, cholesterols, carbs, calories, sodium etc if you are eating a variety of plants and staying active and only eating red meat and processed food sometimes instead of all the time. Your diet is naturally balanced.

 

[paximperium]

There is no secret formula to nutrtion. It is very simple.


Eat fresh, real foods. Mostly plants (at least 5 a day). Lots of fiber. Don't eat a lot of red meat or processed foods.

Be active and exercize.

That's it. That's all there is too it. There is no need to worry about sugars, cholesterols, carbs, calories, sodium etc if you are eating a variety of plants and staying active and only eating red meat and processed food sometimes instead of all the time. Your diet is naturally balanced.

Hypercholesterolemia is strongly associated with genetics.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Hypercholesterolemia is strongly associated with genetics.

most certainly. It runs in my family, actually. My dad is the most physically fit person I know his age, and his cholesterol is through the roof. Even WITH his meds his cholesterol levels are very very high.

My post would only be referring to people without external conditions that would affect their weight/cholesterol/etc.

 

[paximperium]

most certainly. It runs in my family, actually. My dad is the most physically fit person I know his age, and his cholesterol is through the roof. Even WITH his meds his cholesterol levels are very very high.

My post would only be referring to people without external conditions that would affect their weight/cholesterol/etc.

Understood.

 

[nimzov]

I had my cholesterol measured and my doctor just told me I was at 5.2. Problem is I do not know what this 5.2 measures ? I guess it is a ratio. He said I was near the limit which is at 5 and he wants to see me in 6 months.

Any idea what this 5.2 is about ?

 

[paximperium]

I had my cholesterol measured and my doctor just told me I was at 5.2. Problem is I do not know what this 5.2 measures ? I guess it is a ratio. He said I was near the limit which is at 5 and he wants to see me in 6 months.

Any idea what this 5.2 is about ?

Probably Cholesterol to HDL ratio.

 

[Blackened Cat]

Lotta wild claims in this thread.

I know myself, that I do better on an Atkins Style Low carb diet and I do really poorly on the diet promoted by the US or Aussie Government.

I do really badly on a veg/vegan diet.

Then there are things like the Optimal diet. http://homodiet.netfirms.com/

 

[nimzov]

Probably Cholesterol to HDL ratio.

Thanks. With that information I found this.

"Reports from the Framingham Heart Study suggest that for men, a total cholesterol-to-HDL ratio of 5 signifies average risk for heart disease; 3.4, about half the average risk; and 9.6, about double the average risk."

http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update0205c.shtml

 

[paximperium]

Lotta wild claims in this thread.

What claims might that be?

I know myself, that I do better on an Atkins Style Low carb diet and I do really poorly on the diet promoted by the US or Aussie Government.

I do really badly on a veg/vegan diet.

Then there are things like the Optimal diet. http://homodiet.netfirms.com/

Where is the research or studies for this diet?

Edit: I really like their claims about mind control and heart surgery. Great stuff.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

I wonder about this, has anybody seen it?

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/cholesterol-doesnt-cause-heart-disease

If the data is correct, the argument seems pretty strong.. of course, I know nothing about this subject, so I prefer to read informed opinions.

Lots of more info and videos in here:

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/tag/cholesterol

 

[Pup]

Eat fresh, real foods. Mostly plants (at least 5 a day). Lots of fiber. Don't eat a lot of red meat or processed foods.

Be active and exercize.

That's it. That's all there is too it. There is no need to worry about sugars, cholesterols, carbs, calories, sodium etc if you are eating a variety of plants and staying active and only eating red meat and processed food sometimes instead of all the time. Your diet is naturally balanced.

I'd disagree on the bolded part. A fresh vegetarian diet has very little sodium in it. Exercise in hot weather makes you lose a lot of electrolytes, especially sodium.

On a non-vegetarian but "healthy" diet, without watching salt intake, I was getting less than 500 mg of sodium a day. Needless to say, in summer, that resulted in hyponatremia. Not fun.

I'd suggest watching salt intake and deliberately adding salt if necessary in hot weather.

 

[Bikewer]

Over 20 years ago, when I first was able to join my HMO, I got a thorough checkup and my doc was horrified to see that my total cholesterol was over 360. At the time, I was averaging about 100 miles a week on my bike and was in great shape.
Diet was not the cause.... He put me on a statin which dropped my numbers into the "optimum" range.
Ever since, it's been a constant game of adjusting medicines/doses to try to keep the numbers where they should be.
Even with all this, I had a brief bout of angina last year and went in for a cardiac catheterization which found partial blockage in one of the descending arteries.
A couple of stents seem to have squared things away; no recurrence of any problems and I'm back on my roadster and patrol bike.
I the notion is that the LDL cholesterol contributes more to buildup, plaques, and so forth, and I know there is suspicion that high levels of inflammation of various types may contribute to this process... Thus the interest in the C-reactive protein tests...An indicator of chronic inflammation.
In my case, I found that diet had no effect on my numbers at all. When first diagnosed, I went rather religiously on a low-fat regimin. I lost weight, but it didn't affect my numbers a whit.
Likewise, when I gave up the low-fat stuff, my numbers remained the same; evidently completely controlled by the meds....

 

[Soapy Sam]

Bikewer- I'm the same. On the UK scale, I'm often over 7, whereas my GP wants me under 5. One statin dropped it to 5.5, then it returned to 6.6.
A second (Atorvastatin) has again brought it down to near 5 and now it's going up again. I have the imprssion of a stable reversible reaction being forced away from equilibrium, then adapting to move back. My metabolism seems to find high cholesterol acceptable, maybe even necessary. I'm now wondering what happens if I stop the statin...
My mother's figures are also high. She had a stroke a year ago, but she was 83.

Does one take the pills in hope of an extra year or two of life, even if they may be doing unknown things to the old bod now? I too am confused.

 

[paximperium]

I wonder about this, has anybody seen it?

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/cholesterol-doesnt-cause-heart-disease

If the data is correct, the argument seems pretty strong.. of course, I know nothing about this subject, so I prefer to read informed opinions.

Lots of more info and videos in here:

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/tag/cholesterol

Actually, I don't really have much to say.
This fella misquotes data, cherry picks data and is one of the most dishonest posters I've read in some time. His misquote and dishonest graph where he manipulates the range to minimize the different from the Framingham data is really appalling.

What is truly telling is how he cherry picks the smaller and less well known studies with negative results but ignore the multiple huge studies with hundreds of thousands of patients with actual positive studies.

Why are you reading his nonsense instead of reading something publihsed in JAMA, BMJ, NEJM, Heart, Journal of Lipid Research etc?

 

[bluesjnr]

....snip....
Then there are things like the Optimal diet. homodiet.netfirms.com

Yeah, yeah I know what your trying to do here. You won't turn me into one of those homersexulaists that easily.

 

[ysabella]

Just in case this is of interest, all my adult life I had high (not shocking, but high) total cholesterol, although my "good" cholesterol has always been pretty high, which is a protective factor. Then my thyroid medication was changed, and now my cholesterol is much lower.
(In the US reckoning, total cholesterol was 250-260, now it's 186 or so. HDL in the 60s, I think it's still up there.)

 

[Dancing David]

For those who have not read about C-reactive protein (CRP) and inflamation:
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4648

 

[TubbaBlubba]

There is no secret formula to nutrtion. It is very simple.


Eat fresh, real foods. Mostly plants (at least 5 a day). Lots of fiber. Don't eat a lot of red meat or processed foods.

Be active and exercize.

That's it. That's all there is too it. There is no need to worry about sugars, cholesterols, carbs, calories, sodium etc if you are eating a variety of plants and staying active and only eating red meat and processed food sometimes instead of all the time. Your diet is naturally balanced.

I've always wondered, what's magical about "plants" and "real foods" that make them so amazing?

I realize a lot of "processed foods" are just corn starch with color and season, but whenever people start talking about the wonders of "natural, fresh, real plants" I always hear an echo similar to what naturopaths say; Medication chemicals are bad, eat herbs instead!

Also, one thing I've always wondered - What the hell is so bad about red meat?