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Chinese workers pay a price for no Labor Unions.

Hey! Come back, little crusader! Please! Pretty please!


Is it something I said? I can't seem to get these altruists to answer when I try to zero in on their actual good deeds (does a do gooder do good deeds).

I'm still waiting for that other crusader rabbit to 'splain me something about how he's supporting the workers. (Or was that the same person.)

I'm beginning to feel like Dorothy. What was that quote about people sure do come and go real fast around here?
 
I said exploited workers, that is a term which applies to all workers, which is why I only buy products which are union made in the United States or Canada if I can help it, although European products will also work in a pinch. The only time I don't have a choice is electronics, which are almost never made by non-exploited workers these days.

Sure you have a choice. You can go without the product. Most electronics stuff isn't a necessity.
 
Also, I noticed you're in Hong Kong. Do you profit off exploitation (Which I assume, judging from these questions and your perfect English) or are you just an especially sociopathic and well connected Chinese person?

Define exploitation.

Are any of the workers forced to work there? Are any of the workers held prisoner, unable to leave their job? Are any of the workers beaten, starved, dehydrated or provided with terrible living conditions? No? Then you don't know what you're talking about.
 
Don't waste your breath. I've noticed a disturbing trend of "if it isn't the same as how it's done in my country, then it's wrong".

You seemed to have missed the "it's because they're atheists, not perfect christians like DOC" elephant that DOC rode in on and parked in the corner of your room.
 
Why do you automatically assume that union workers in North America aren't exploited? You must not be sufficiently far left to have heard the argument that since the rampant union-busting of the 70s Union Management is often as bad as Management Management when it comes to taking advantage of the labourer.

I'm actually a union organizer, so I know all about the issues of American unions. If you have a problem with the local, it's probably due to apathy with the union politics. The major problems facing internationals now is that they are spineless and would rather bend over than fight.

Unions like the UE and IWW are a lot better about this, but they lack the pull of the AFL-CIO.

But you have no respect for the unions in Europe? Some are rather better than the ones in North America when it comes to looking after their workers, you know?

Lots of respect for them, as well as South Korean unions, but being as their products are less available and I am myself an American Union worker, I look for US made first.

Actually, I'm just terribly precocious. That's my actual picture in the avatar.

Exactly why would you white knight a horrible and oppressive regime, then?

What do you mean by "profiting off of exploitation"? How many jobs can you name that are not somehow profiting off of someone who's being exploited?
For instance, what do you do? (My history is all over these boards.)

I mean that since you live in Hong Kong, chances are good you are in an industry which is directly oppressing third world workers for massive profits.

Work need not be oppressive, that is why labor unions and socialist economics were invented, the problem is the ability and/or desire to implement these solutions.

As for myself, I was a Police Officer for many years, then I resigned due to horrible corruption of the force. I now work as an Electrician for a charity group that renovates and upgrades the homes of the poor in this region. We are especially focused on the Indian Reservations.

I'm sure all those people who aren't dying of exposure now think me an oppressor.

And why would my English skills lead you to make any assumption whatsoever as to the fact that I profit from the exploitation of others. As to your comment on sociopathic? Well, I just bolded that for you. I think people should sometimes be fed their regurgitated material when they're mouthing hyperbole just as a matter of course.

The fact that you speak perfect English in a country that does not speak it means you are either a foreigner or a wealthy and well connected Chinese, either of which makes even more sense in Hong Kong. This would also explain why you're sticking up for a nation that uses mobile execution vans to kill the homeless prior to the Olympics, and seems to think driving tanks through crowds of protesters in Tibet is perfectly acceptable riot control.

I could keep going on, actually. Amnesty International has lots on China.



Are any of the workers forced to work there?
Yes.
Are any of the workers held prisoner, unable to leave their job?
Yes.
Are any of the workers beaten, starved, dehydrated or provided with terrible living conditions?
Yes.

No? Then you don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah, me, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and countless other NGOs and watchdog groups are all morons, only the mighty intellect of Taffer can prevail.
 
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I'm actually a union organizer, so I know all about the issues of American unions. If you have a problem with the local, it's probably due to apathy with the union politics. The major problems facing internationals now is that they are spineless and would rather bend over than fight.

Unions like the UE and IWW are a lot better about this, but they lack the pull of the AFL-CIO.



Lots of respect for them, as well as South Korean unions, but being as their products are less available and I am myself an American Union worker, I look for US made first.



Exactly why would you white knight a horrible and oppressive regime, then?



I mean that since you live in Hong Kong, chances are good you are in an industry which is directly oppressing third world workers for massive profits.

Work need not be oppressive, that is why labor unions and socialist economics were invented, the problem is the ability and/or desire to implement these solutions.

As for myself, I was a Police Officer for many years, then I resigned due to horrible corruption of the force. I now work as an Electrician for a charity group that renovates and upgrades the homes of the poor in this region. We are especially focused on the Indian Reservations.

I'm sure all those people who aren't dying of exposure now think me an oppressor.



The fact that you speak perfect English in a country that does not speak it means you are either a foreigner or a wealthy and well connected Chinese, either of which makes even more sense in Hong Kong. This would also explain why you're sticking up for a nation that uses mobile execution vans to kill the homeless prior to the Olympics, and seems to think driving tanks through crowds of protesters in Tibet is perfectly acceptable riot control.

I could keep going on, actually. Amnesty International has lots on China.



Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yeah, me, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and countless other NGOs and watchdog groups are all morons, only the mighty intellect of Taffer can prevail.


Oooh, let's compare scars, then.
Daddy was a union organizer on the Standard Fruit pier in New Orleans, Mommy was a rabid civil rights advocate (so much so that she sort of got us driven out of town by the White Citizens' Council). I spent much of my childhood (late 50s to mid-60s) in various demonstrations, sit-ins, and voter's right drives. I think I learned how to stuff envelopes with solicitations before I was potty trained.
I continued with this trend in my yute. The Pentagon? Did an overnighter in lockup for that one. Lincoln Park? An overnighter and a tiny little scar from getting my head busted. Spent a decade in Canada as a draft resistor.
I'm a high school dropout who's worked his way up, an inch at a time, in the shipping business. Loaded cargo, drove forklifts, delivered documents, etc...

How'd you do? Your Magic 8 Ball seems to need some new juice. About 1 out of 10? And that's only if I concede that all businesses are somehow exploitative of third world workers so in some way I suppose I am, too. I'm still involved in causes over here, but I channel some of my employer's greed to get it done. We've opened two schools (which we sponsor) in rural China, and created/built a fruit orchard in another area so that the villagers have a marketable commodity.

If you want to discuss China, go start a thread. A couple of us who appear to be all-forgiving are, in fact, rather even-tempered business types, but we're also both involved in a number of local causes and are very critical of the local, regional, and national governments and their policies. I believe if you look closely you'll note that we're not blindly defending anything. We're just trying to make sure that if you're going to start brandishing those great big brushes full of tar, that you're hitting the right targets.


Don't make assumptions. You know what they say about that.

School is out. Go, and sin no more. ;)
 
Yes. Yes. Yes.

At this particular factory? If you think so, I'd like to see you provide evidence.

Yeah, me, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and countless other NGOs and watchdog groups are all morons, only the mighty intellect of Taffer can prevail.

Show me evidence that workers at this factory are force to work there without pay, unable to leave at any time they no longer wish to work there, and beaten, starved and dehydrated.
 
At this particular factory? If you think so, I'd like to see you provide evidence.
I don't know about this Foxconn factory, nor was I talking about it.
This is what's known as 'thread drift'

I was talking about the serious abuses of human rights perpetrated by the Chinese government against all workers, especially those who dare to speak up.
Great topic!

If you are seriously intent on discussing "the serious abuses of human rights perpetrated by the Chinese government against all workers", please start another thread... here in Economics, Business and Finance or maybe in Non-USA & General Politics or perhaps in the Social Issues & Current Events sub-forum
 
I don't know about this Foxconn factory, nor was I talking about it.

Well, I was. There may be some bad factories in China, but this isn't one of them.

I was talking about the serious abuses of human rights perpetrated by the Chinese government against all workers, especially those who dare to speak up.

Against all workers? You don't know what you are talking about.

I have worked in a factory in China. Not once was a worker mysteriously taken away and killed by the government. You are painting a picture with a very, very, broad brush. Have you even been to China? Do you even know what the conditions there are like?


No mention of factory workers in the first few pages. Besides, a few cases does not equal the entire workforce.

That and more. Although, I doubt it will sway you at all, you already seem to have the Reganite neo-liberal bug, the only thing that can cure that is a blindfold and cigarette.

Reganite neo-liberal bug? What the hell are you blathering on about?

You haven't swayed me because you don't know what you are talking about. I live and work in an East Asian country, and have worked in factories on the Chinese mainland. You, apparently, have never been there.

I do not like the Chinese government. They are corrupt and self serving, but the way you paint them is simply ludicrous.
 
And to bring it back on topic, let me reiterate for Little Hulkster.

I have been to THIS PARTICULAR FACTORY. I know the company. I have been to their headquarters in Taiwan. I know their methods of business and I've seen the plant in action. I've also seen the workers leaving during their breaks or after their shifts are done.

What I have not seen:
Armed guards. There are none. The security doesn't even carry weapons.
Military patrols/escorts. There are none.
Chains, manacles(sic?), whipping posts, stocks, dunking stools, gallows.... All none.

As I said, the comparison to prison conditions is inaccurate. The comparison I made, that it's similar to the kind of discipline you'll see on a military base, is more accurate.
 
Workers at Chinese Honda Plant March in Protest

China Inflation Rises to a 19-Month High

Fresh data from China on Friday further cemented the view that the country’s giant economy continued to power ahead in May — though a marked rise in inflation also raised the pressure on Beijing to step up efforts to damp the booming pace of growth.

Friday’s figures, part of a monthly flood of statistics from Beijing, showed consumer prices rose at their fastest rate in 19 months, at a pace of 3.1 percent from a year earlier. Across China, workers are beginning to strike for higher wages, which could cause inflation to rise further.

Industrial production and retail sales also powered along forcefully, figures showed Friday, while data out on Thursday revealed imports and exports both topped analyst expectations by a wide margin. Property prices continued to soar in May.

The strong economic data come despite debt concerns and fiscal austerity measures across Europe, China’s biggest trading partner.
 
Managers use a variety of tactics to prevent workers from resigning. Internal migrants are typically owed back pay, meaning those who quit their job lose at least 2-3 months' wages. Employers often purposefully withhold wages before the Lunar New Year to ensure workers come back to their jobs after the holiday period -- meaning millions of migrants are unable to buy train tickets home for the holidays. Managers often illegally force workers to pay a deposit to prevent those switching jobs. Because of their insecure status under the hukou system, internal migrants are not likely to complain.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGUSA20070301001
 
Managers use a variety of tactics to prevent workers from resigning. Internal migrants are typically owed back pay, meaning those who quit their job lose at least 2-3 months' wages. Employers often purposefully withhold wages before the Lunar New Year to ensure workers come back to their jobs after the holiday period -- meaning millions of migrants are unable to buy train tickets home for the holidays. Managers often illegally force workers to pay a deposit to prevent those switching jobs. Because of their insecure status under the hukou system, internal migrants are not likely to complain.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGUSA20070301001

No! Don't look behind the curtain! China is the best nation on earth and has NEVER done anything wrong!

If you notice, only the people who make money off the Chinese workers argue that China is fine. Wonder why that is?
 
littlehulkster, you have been asked more than once to create a topic about "Chinese workers" in general, where your general comments will be on-topic. This topic is about one factory, and you haven't posted anything on-topic in quite a while. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? You aren't acquitting yourself well here.

Especially note this post.
 
I have not noticed anyone arguing that China is a nice place to be a worker.
 
I have not noticed anyone arguing that China is a nice place to be a worker.
Nor has anyone been able to support the idea that No Unions = Suicide. While I'm sure that the work envrionment that I enjoy is worlds ahead of anything the Tiwanese workers at the Foxconn factory endure, I don't think the addition of a union will solve all their ills.
 

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