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China

Orphia Nay said:
China is burdened by its past of being the poor nation providing cheap goods for high-income countries.

Now, it's using education and technology to develop its Belt and Road initiative {Wikipedia} to connect Eurasia and allow easier transport of goods, and less poverty for itself and other countries.
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Somoene is really drinking the kool aid. I see.
Once again, sounds like the excuses made by western "Fellow Travellers" during Stalin's regime.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I have run into trouble in more than one country, none of which anyone warned me about. Most of the time people are people everywhere you go. Bottom line though, you never see what a country or its people are like unless you go there.
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Yes, a lot of people voted for Trump. That's doesn't make the few who make the papers, examples of what all the rest are like.
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This is exactly what I'm getting at. Thank you.

I'd thought the "there be dragons" mentality had died out.

The media reporting sensationalism, and governments giving their travel warnings & advice make other countries sound much higher-risk than actual one-in-a-million chance of, say, terrorism.
 
The Atheist said:
Trump's tariffs bear some resemblance, but they're not strangling exports the way China is.



Here. We were trying to protect trade at the time. That never happens for other countries.
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But China isn't shooting anyone in the streets in NZ.

I don't think they're even shooting them in Hong Kong, any more than the US is shooting them in the US.
 
dudalb said:
Gee, sounds like what they said about Joe Stalin
Just a varaition on the old "But he made the trains runs on time" and I, frankly have no use for these kind of apologists.
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Suit yourself. I understand this thread as a place to share facts. Both the oppressiveness of the Chinese government and the unprecedented economical progress during the last several decades are facts.

I think a considerable portion of the Chinse population would like a more democratic system (even if many don't really know that that entails), but I don't think they would like to do without the vastly improved economy.

Ideally, China would gradually move towards democracy, but that won't happen overnight. In fact it can't. Democracy is a slow process.

Hans
 
The was an interesting broadcast from the BBC.

Two points key they made were that having seen what happened to communist states of Yugoslavia and USSR the Chinese communist party is opposed to autonomy and following a policy of developing a single linguistic and cultural identity. That the main policy is not China first but the Chinese communist party first, most policy is directed to maintaining control and the future of the communist party. There is no ethical element other than the dominance of the party.

BBC world service broadcasts are interesting because they utilise e.g. Chinese journalists and academics, who express Chinese views. The views are not comfortable, whilst I do not see China being a hot war military threat to the west, I think they are a cold war threat, the best long term position is a weak and dependant west, a successful west is always an ideological threat.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172x19fnvk5p46
 
MRC_Hans said:
Suit yourself. I understand this thread as a place to share facts. Both the oppressiveness of the Chinese government and the unprecedented economical progress during the last several decades are facts.

I think a considerable portion of the Chinse population would like a more democratic system (even if many don't really know that that entails), but I don't think they would like to do without the vastly improved economy.

Ideally, China would gradually move towards democracy, but that won't happen overnight. In fact it can't. Democracy is a slow process.

Hans
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I guess oppresive regimes are find as they are left wing.
 
The Atheist said:
Is that where you're drawing the line?
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I'm trying to get a full picture.

I see some underestimating of the resilience and ingenuity of the "west".

And, I'd like to see less fear of China so the trade wars don't escalate out of any "cold war" that potentially exists.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Ideally, China would gradually move towards democracy, but that won't happen overnight. In fact it can't. Democracy is a slow process.
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Ideally in whose minds?

Certainly not China's. Xi is making sure they stay as far from it as possible, and when you have people buying into the idea of social credit, alongside face-recognition technology taken to insane extremes, I don't see how it's going to be possible.

They're a great study in how to control a population.

It's also quite sad that instead of building on progressive policies they choose to do the opposite. It seems to me they could have the best of both worlds, but have decided instead to embody Lord Acton's axioms.
 
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