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China v India

The Indian government responded to Trump's claim that he had communicated to Modi his offer to mediate with China. Their claim is that Trump has not been in touch with Modi since he had called in his "request" for Hydroxychloroquine. However, let's face it, neither of them can be trusted with telling the truth.
 
Currently, there is a lot of saber-rattling from either end. In India, Modi is facing questions regarding his inept handling of the COVID crisis, particularly with regard to the suffering of the migrant workers and daily wage earners. The knee-jerk decisions that have resulted in mass suffering and confusion that has been very difficult to hide. His media whores are currently working overtime to pass the buck on two fronts. Pakistan in the west and China in the east. There is a lot of chest-thumping and bombast from the Hindutva factions about marching to the border to defend the "motherland". Modi and the BJP are using the China crisis primarily as an opportunity to reaffirm his image as a strong macho leader.
 
Susheel said:
The Indian government responded to Trump's claim that he had communicated to Modi his offer to mediate with China. Their claim is that Trump has not been in touch with Modi since he had called in his "request" for Hydroxychloroquine. However, let's face it, neither of them can be trusted with telling the truth.
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Haha! Like a pair of young lovers... "... but, he hasn't called me..."

theprestige said:
Three days in, and the commentary is ORANGE MAN BAD. Is there even a China v India issue right now?
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Holy crap, you give your game away entirely, don't you?

The discussion is about India v China. It was the orange clown who inserted himself into the story:

On Wednesday Donald Trump waded into the heightened standoff, claiming that he had “informed both India and China that the United States is ready, willing and able to mediate or arbitrate their now raging border dispute”.
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And yet, his claim seems to be all hot air. How astounding.

It's not Xi like would have any interest in him mediating, so he probably thought it was a safe thing to say, but the Indians have contradicted him. Leaving that out of the narrative would be akin to censorship.

Susheel said:
Currently, there is a lot of saber-rattling from either end. In India, Modi is facing questions regarding his inept handling of the COVID crisis, particularly with regard to the suffering of the migrant workers and daily wage earners. The knee-jerk decisions that have resulted in mass suffering and confusion that has been very difficult to hide. His media whores are currently working overtime to pass the buck on two fronts. Pakistan in the west and China in the east. There is a lot of chest-thumping and bombast from the Hindutva factions about marching to the border to defend the "motherland". Modi and the BJP are using the China crisis primarily as an opportunity to reaffirm his image as a strong macho leader.
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Yeah, it looked that way to me as well - a very convenient means of deflecting from his inability to actually lead the country.

I can understand the Pakistan border, where he feels he will always have the upper hand, but rattling China's cage isn't a smart move. He obviously thinks he knows how far he can push before Xi throws some missiles his way. I hope he's right or a lot of poor saps in the Indian army will pay for it.
 
The Atheist said:
Holy crap, you give your game away entirely, don't you?

The discussion is about India v China. It was the orange clown who inserted himself into the story:
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I'm saying his self-insertion is probably the least interesting and least important part of the story.

Troop movements. Demands. Border clashes. Rubicons*. These things, to me, are important. They're the signs and signals of the actual conflict and its likely outcome. Trump saying something stupid about it on the other side of the world doesn't really matter.

My "game" is that if Trump's offer to mediate really is the most consequential aspect of this thing - and it does seem to be, since nobody's really talking about that other stuff - then the entire affair is probably pretty inconsequential.

Or maybe it is consequential, but it's hard to break away from OMB long enough to look at and discuss consequential things like troop movements and border clashes.

Either way, setting aside Trump's inconsequential (in my opinion) efforts, is anything of consequence happening on the border right now?

---
*In the sense of escalating acts that force the other side to also escalate, and make it more difficult to then de-escalate.
 
Meanwhile, in the real world, high up in the roof of the world, it looks like both sides are taking things a little more seriously: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-near-eastern-ladakh/articleshow/76123257.cms

How reliable that report is, I have no idea and impartial news is pretty hard to find.

BBC has this, which merely confirms the conflicting stories about who started it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52852509

While Indian nationalists are heaping blame on Xi and side with USA: https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/india-china-border-dispute-meghnad-desai-6435036/

On the flip side, China isn't even mentioning it, with Xinhuanet having this as their only non-Covid story from India over the past week: http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/asiapacific/2020-05/31/c_139103147.htm

Maybe a subtle reference to Modi? Not a word about the border, and they're clearly aware India is thumping its drum on the subject.
 
The Atheist said:
More, unnecessary, comments about your leader.

But its' everyone else who's obsessed with him...
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It's not me who brought him up and keeps defending his focus here. I came to the thread to see what was being discussed about the China v India thing. Apparently what's being discussed about the China v India thing is... Donald Trump, for some reason.
 
The Atheist said:
Meanwhile, in the real world, high up in the roof of the world, it looks like both sides are taking things a little more seriously: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-near-eastern-ladakh/articleshow/76123257.cms

How reliable that report is, I have no idea and impartial news is pretty hard to find.

BBC has this, which merely confirms the conflicting stories about who started it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52852509

While Indian nationalists are heaping blame on Xi and side with USA: https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/india-china-border-dispute-meghnad-desai-6435036/

On the flip side, China isn't even mentioning it, with Xinhuanet having this as their only non-Covid story from India over the past week: http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/asiapacific/2020-05/31/c_139103147.htm

Maybe a subtle reference to Modi? Not a word about the border, and they're clearly aware India is thumping its drum on the subject.
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Now we're talking!
 
The Atheist said:
... I hope he's right or a lot of poor saps in the Indian army will pay for it.
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For the current administration, Army fatalities are just fodder for the excessive nationalistic jingoism they can indulge in. The only soldier the BJP loves is a dead soldier that they can use to stoke a very regressive form of hate-based nationalism. My bigger concern is for my fellow countrymen in the north-eastern states who are already victims of racial prejudice---invectives used against them include---chinki, junglee and more recently corona. During the early stages of the current pandemic, there were sporadic instances of violent behavior against people from the north-east as they became the target of the "mainland" Indians as they were seen as being responsible for the spread of the "China virus" because of their features.
However, the pro-BJP media are primarily focusing on some dubious threats from Pakistan which included news reports of a pigeon suspected of being a spy and locusts seen as some kind of bio-weapon sent in by Pakistan. The primary strategy seems to be to divert the public's attention from what is happening in the borders in the north east.
The general consensus seems to be that Modi is not really keen to take on China since the economic welfare of many of his corporate lackeys depend on the relationship with China. In fact, China had a major role in the construction of the "pride" of the BJP government...the tallest statue in South Asia erected in Gujarat.
 
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Susheel said:
For the current administration, Army fatalities are just fodder for the excessive nationalistic jingoism they can indulge in.
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As they always have been.

Susheel said:
However, the pro-BJP media are primarily focusing on some dubious threats from Pakistan which included news reports of a pigeon suspected of being a spy and locusts seen as some kind of bio-weapon sent in by Pakistan.
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Haha! Yeah, I read about the pigeon.

Have the interrogated it yet?

Susheel said:
The general consensus seems to be that Modi is not really keen to take on China since the economic welfare of many of his corporate lackeys depend on the relationship with China. In fact, China had a major role in the construction of the "pride" of the BJP government...the tallest statue in South Asia erected in Gujarat.
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Dollar diplomacy works.

It looks like China are happy to let Modi rattle away with his sabre at the moment. As long as no shots are fired across the border I imagine Xi has much bigger fish to fry.
 
And what exactly are they fighting over? I don't think the land in disute is of much value, either economically or strategically.
One is reminded of o Voltaire's famous comment on the French and Indian War; "France and England are going to war over a few acres of snow".
 
dudalb said:
And what exactly are they fighting over? I don't think the land in disute is of much value, either economically or strategically.
One is reminded of o Voltaire's famous comment on the French and Indian War; "France and England are going to war over a few acres of snow".
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Ego. In India, particularly, Modi needs something to divert the public's attention from his government's incompetent handling of the COVID pandemic. I guess there are similar issues for Xi in China too.
 
dudalb said:
And what exactly are they fighting over?
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There may or may not have been some Chinese soldiers who trespassed on Indian soil.

Susheel said:
Ego. In India, particularly, Modi needs something to divert the public's attention from his government's incompetent handling of the COVID pandemic. I guess there are similar issues for Xi in China too.
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I'm not sure Xi needs it, and the lack of media coverage in China tends to confirm that.

I see they've agreed to talks rather than fighting - the perfect result for Modi & BJP. They can sell it as China backing down and thump their chests some more.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ute-peacefully-statement-200605201117199.html
 
The Atheist said:
There may or may not have been some Chinese soldiers who trespassed on Indian soil.



I'm not sure Xi needs it, and the lack of media coverage in China tends to confirm that.

I see they've agreed to talks rather than fighting - the perfect result for Modi & BJP. They can sell it as China backing down and thump their chests some more.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ute-peacefully-statement-200605201117199.html
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I feel like this is the perfect result for everybody. Talks are better than fighting.

I'm sure you wouldn't want China to escalate, just to keep Modi from saving face.
 
theprestige said:
I feel like this is the perfect result for everybody. Talks are better than fighting.
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I have said that many, many times.

theprestige said:
I'm sure you wouldn't want China to escalate, just to keep Modi from saving face.
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Correct.

I also think there's not an ice-cream's chance in hell Modi would try to actually escalate anything with China anyway - he is outclassed by an order of magnitude these days.
 
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