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China. The gas price scapegoats!

Do you actually believe any of the garbage you post? Because right now I'm seriously considering an intentional Rule 8 violation with malice aforethought.
 
Some might argue that the price has been held down artificially. The Saudis were fearful that high prices would bring on alternatives, so they used their enormous reserves to keep prices low. Others would say they kept it low to keep the US happy, figuring that this would help protect them from bad guys like Sadam who I believe bullied Kuwait and possibly Saudis and others into help paying for his war against Iran.

That’s all ancient history now. The legendary Saudi reserves are now widely believed to be impotent. (see Matt Simon’s Book “Twighlight in the Desert” http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...6/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-7992827-8677735)

Having a lot of oil does not mean you can pump it out as fast as you want. The total production base has become so large, that it’s become near impossible to add on enough new production to offset declines in old fields. This is called “Hubbert’s Peak”, it’s been predicted to occur for many years around 2006 or so.

There’s no conspiracy. The refinery issue works this way: Now that production is nearly maxed out, inferior oil has to be used in suddenly increasing quantities. The inferior oil requires extra capital investment to refine that cannot be brought on line quickly. This puts a premium on the higher grades of oil which are the types which get quoted.

Some have argued that Hubbert’s Peak does not apply to the world as a whole, perhaps we get a plateau instead as oil sands and various liquification schemes, and possibly expensive new oil exploration schemes are devised. These require time and high prices to bring on line.
 
Tmy said:
I dont buy this whole "Chinas economy driving the gas prices up" bull flop.
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You better buy it, because it is true.

Tmy said:
You mean to tell me that in a mere 3 years, China has managed to drive up gas costs by like 80%!?!? CONSPIRICY I SAY!!!
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From what I hear, gas is now $2.00 a gallon. So you are saying that 3 years ago gas was $1.10? I don't seem to recall that.
 
manny said:

What about refiners? Well, that's a demand thing. Demand in the US has been going up faster than refining capacity has increased. It's true that China isn't much of that (though it's some, as both we and they import some finished product). Refining margins have been increasing as prices rise whereas they normally decline because of a separate supply/demand dynamic. And that increase is magnified in some local markets because of local (as opposed to nationwide) refining capacity shortages and/or gas formulation regulations which create shortages which might not otherwise exist. But that's a relatively low portion of the increase in gasoline prices. The big story is crude, and China is a big part of that.
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Of course they haven't been increasing refinery capacity. In 1980, there were over 300 oil refineries. Then the price of oil collapsed and companies complained of "too much capacity." So, they closed refineries. Do a google search for "oil refinery closing" and you will find news reports of a number of closed refineries and they all claim "too much capacity."

Oil companies like to blame environmental regulations, but that is just a convenient excuse. These refineries were basically compliant and the congressmen in the area fought like hell to keep them open. Jobs always overcome the environment in congressmen priorities.

Now that oil and gas prices have risen through the roof and they have record profits -- notice they have no intentions of building new refineries. Bush talks about it, but I haven't seen any reports from the oil industry hailing the idea.

Here are a few links to get you started:
http://wyden.senate.gov/leg_issues/reports/wyden_oil_report.pdf
http://www.winfieldcourier.com/w050716/Thurs2.html
http://www.eyeforenergy.com/news.asp?id=319
http://www.bizjournals.com/eastbay/stories/2003/11/10/daily32.html
http://www.arkcity.net/stories/071305/com_0001.shtml
 
Well, here's some thoughts from a Norwegian, a citizen of the third largest oil exporting country in the world :

THANK YOU! Thank you, thank you, thank you to all consumers of oil products!

We guys are just sitting here, enjoying our hydropower and watching the cash roll in! Yeeeha! Our country has saved up TWO TIMES what our national yearly budget is, and still the cash is rolling in!

THANK YOU! Keep burning that oil!

Of course, our gas prices are around 7 USD a gallon, so we all smirk a little about the Americans complaining when their gas costs less than a third of what ours does.

I just take the bus :)
 
Ryokan said:
Well, here's some thoughts from a Norwegian, a citizen of the third largest oil exporting country in the world :

THANK YOU! Thank you, thank you, thank you to all consumers of oil products!

We guys are just sitting here, enjoying our hydropower and watching the cash roll in! Yeeeha! Our country has saved up TWO TIMES what our national yearly budget is, and still the cash is rolling in!

THANK YOU! Keep burning that oil!

Of course, our gas prices are around 7 USD a gallon, so we all smirk a little about the Americans complaining when their gas costs less than a third of what ours does.

I just take the bus :)
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And when that runs out, you'll still have reindeer! ;)
 
Re: Re: China. The gas price scapegoats!

The Central Scrutinizer said:
You better buy it, because it is true.



From what I hear, gas is now $2.00 a gallon. So you are saying that 3 years ago gas was $1.10? I don't seem to recall that.
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$2.00! I wish!! Last I filled up it was $2.59 for the cheap stuff.

Heres my beef. You have a commodity, within 3-5 yrs the price of said commodity has nearly doubled!!! In an econ 101 mindset you would think that there was some catastrophe that affected the market to cause such inflation. (ie a hurricane hits citrus country causeing orananges to increase in price). While there has been minor events, theres no big bang. Thats what bugs me.

At the same time you have the oil companies making incredible profits, an oil barron president, a big oil nation under new control. The whole situtation makes me suspicious.
 
Re: Re: Re: China. The gas price scapegoats!

Tmy said:
Heres my beef. You have a commodity, within 3-5 yrs the price of said commodity has nearly doubled!!! In an econ 101 mindset you would think that there was some catastrophe that affected the market to cause such inflation. (ie a hurricane hits citrus country causeing orananges to increase in price). While there has been minor events, theres no big bang. Thats what bugs me.
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The concept of Peak Oil has been discussed on this forum and reached no concensus, but there is a consensus wthin the oil-producing and oil-buying community. That consensus is unemotional and it accepts the Peak Oil argument. The major event has been the tipping point where everybody in the trade realised that there was a concensus. Where the big buyers were trying not to make waves and stay below the trend, now they're into getting ahead of the trend and buying everybody else out of the pot. Meanwhile the consumer is getting educated about the new reality.
 
Ryokan said:
Well, here's some thoughts from a Norwegian, a citizen of the third largest oil exporting country in the world :

THANK YOU! Thank you, thank you, thank you to all consumers of oil products!

We guys are just sitting here, enjoying our hydropower and watching the cash roll in! Yeeeha! Our country has saved up TWO TIMES what our national yearly budget is, and still the cash is rolling in!

THANK YOU! Keep burning that oil!
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Don't get too smug, payback for Lindisfarne is still pending. Is Norway keeping the cash in dollars, Euros, or what? Something tells me it's not dollars. The Chinese have control of the trigger in that game.
 
Re: Re: Re: China. The gas price scapegoats!

Tmy said:
$2.00! I wish!! Last I filled up it was $2.59 for the cheap stuff.
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Maybe instead of obsessing over the price of gas, you should get a life.

Tmy said:
Heres my beef. You have a commodity, within 3-5 yrs the price of said commodity has nearly doubled!!! In an econ 101 mindset you would think that there was some catastrophe that affected the market to cause such inflation. (ie a hurricane hits citrus country causeing orananges to increase in price). While there has been minor events, theres no big bang. Thats what bugs me.

At the same time you have the oil companies making incredible profits, an oil barron president, a big oil nation under new control. The whole situtation makes me suspicious.
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There are places in the country where the price of new homes has doubled in the last 5 years. And yet, strangly, you don't bitch about a conspiracy amongst home builders.

Why?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: China. The gas price scapegoats!

The Central Scrutinizer said:
There are places in the country where the price of new homes has doubled in the last 5 years. And yet, strangly, you don't bitch about a conspiracy amongst home builders.

Why?
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Because he doesn't want to "accidentally" end up in the foundation of a new home outside Boston. ;)
 
Re: Re: Re: China. The gas price scapegoats!

deleted by poster
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: China. The gas price scapegoats!

The Central Scrutinizer said:
Maybe instead of obsessing over the price of gas, you should get a life.



There are places in the country where the price of new homes has doubled in the last 5 years. And yet, strangly, you don't bitch about a conspiracy amongst home builders.

Why?
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I cant get a life cause I cant afford to drive anywhere.

As for homes. More price fixing!!! But soon their uppance will come.
 
Re: Re: China. The gas price scapegoats!

The Central Scrutinizer said:
You better buy it, because it is true.



From what I hear, gas is now $2.00 a gallon. So you are saying that 3 years ago gas was $1.10? I don't seem to recall that.
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3 years ago people got upset when gas went up to $1.60. Just before the Iraq war, I paid about $15 to fill up my 10-gallon tank. Now it's $2.69. I pay almost $30 to fill up my 10-gallon tank. Where is "the white zone" that you don't know these things?
 
Re: Re: Re: China. The gas price scapegoats!

SlippyToad said:
3 years ago people got upset when gas went up to $1.60. Just before the Iraq war, I paid about $15 to fill up my 10-gallon tank. Now it's $2.69. I pay almost $30 to fill up my 10-gallon tank. Where is "the white zone" that you don't know these things?
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Maybe if he had a life he'd know the price of gas. Hmmm Im thinking CS might really be GW Bush in real life!!
 
Tmy said:
You mean to tell me that in a mere 3 years, China has managed to drive up gas costs by like 80%!?!? CONSPIRICY I SAY!!!
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Conspiracy, you say ...

I was doing some work for the oil industry during the mid-80's oil-crisis. Efficiency changes after the oil-shocks of the 70's were kicking in, the North Sea was coming on-stream bigtime, there was major over-supply and prices were down and heading inexorably south. Faces were long, glumness abounded, projects were being cancelled or pared back. Reagan's people were shutting down their nodding-donkeys because they weren't paying their way. The Soviets were hurting. Then, in 1986, Chernobyl popped its top and it was smiles all round in the oil industry.

I'm just saying. :con2:
 
Re: Re: Re: China. The gas price scapegoats!

SlippyToad said:
3 years ago people got upset when gas went up to $1.60. Just before the Iraq war, I paid about $15 to fill up my 10-gallon tank. Now it's $2.69. I pay almost $30 to fill up my 10-gallon tank. Where is "the white zone" that you don't know these things?
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I guess I have more interesting things to think about than how much gas costs. I also couldn't tell you the price of a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread.
 
Thought Id bring this thread back from the dead. Considering the latest news on how Exxon and the other oil villians brought in record breaking profits last quarter.

Loot a TV after a hurricane and get shot on sight. Loot the entire nation after a national disaster and thats "good business."
 
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