Cleon
King of the Pod People
From CNN:
Go China!
Go China!
aerocontrols
Illuminator
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2001
- Messages
- 3,444
Welcome to the 400 mile-high club, China. (more or less)
evildave
Unregistered
E
Good thing we're spending more every month to have people deployed in Iraq than we do on missile defense in a year.
Orbiting a man like that means China can get a reasonable payload into orbit, and that means they can shortly have MRV ICBM capability.
Orbiting a man like that means China can get a reasonable payload into orbit, and that means they can shortly have MRV ICBM capability.
peptoabysmal
Illuminator
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2002
- Messages
- 3,466
*WHEW*
From someone who grew up in the cold war era, when I saw the topic "China Launched!" all I could think of was a nuke!
From someone who grew up in the cold war era, when I saw the topic "China Launched!" all I could think of was a nuke!
Re: Re: China Launched!
At the very least, it should help keep NASA sharp. That can only be good for their efficiency, which is good for your tax dollars.
A bit of competition might launch another space race. Some would like that, for all sorts of reasons.Ed said:
At the very least, it should help keep NASA sharp. That can only be good for their efficiency, which is good for your tax dollars.
Cleon
King of the Pod People
Re: Re: China Launched!
Two things:
#1, Space exploration is a good thing, no matter who's doing it. Yes, I celebrate Yuri's night, too.
http://www.yurisnight.net/
#2, With George "I'm doing what God tells me to" Dubya in the white house, some balance to the world is definitely a Good Thing.
Ed said:
Two things:
#1, Space exploration is a good thing, no matter who's doing it. Yes, I celebrate Yuri's night, too.
http://www.yurisnight.net/ #2, With George "I'm doing what God tells me to" Dubya in the white house, some balance to the world is definitely a Good Thing.
Re: Re: Re: China Launched!
Now that's ridiculous! You hear it alot these days but lets consider the not so distant past where the USA wasn't the sole superpower...
The 2 SuperPower scenario:
An arms race with the USSR, the threat of nuclear war, military intervention or coup d'etats backed by either communists or capitalists etc etc etc...
The Many Powers scenario:
AKA WW1
We'll gee, call me a duped pawn of the Republican PR machine, but I think there might be worse things than to be in a world where the by far the strongest country is democratic and capitalist. Quite the nicest hegemon I think you'll find in history.
A "balance" to the USA's would be OK if:
1) It was not a dictatorship
2) It did not show contempt for human rights/free expression
3) It was not militarily expansionist (ie Tibet, who knows with Taiwan)
I fail to see how a China as powerful as the USA will help the world any more than having a Saddam or Hitler or Darth Vader as powerful as the USA would "make things better"...
Cleon said:
Now that's ridiculous! You hear it alot these days but lets consider the not so distant past where the USA wasn't the sole superpower...
The 2 SuperPower scenario:
An arms race with the USSR, the threat of nuclear war, military intervention or coup d'etats backed by either communists or capitalists etc etc etc...
The Many Powers scenario:
AKA WW1
We'll gee, call me a duped pawn of the Republican PR machine, but I think there might be worse things than to be in a world where the by far the strongest country is democratic and capitalist. Quite the nicest hegemon I think you'll find in history.
A "balance" to the USA's would be OK if:
1) It was not a dictatorship
2) It did not show contempt for human rights/free expression
3) It was not militarily expansionist (ie Tibet, who knows with Taiwan)
I fail to see how a China as powerful as the USA will help the world any more than having a Saddam or Hitler or Darth Vader as powerful as the USA would "make things better"...
Malachi151
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- May 24, 2003
- Messages
- 1,404
I love how some Americans see every success by other countries as a horrible thing. 
Just shows how much Americans truely believe in helping the world become a better place. Many American's idea of a better world is one where no one but America has any capability to do anything
Just shows how much Americans truely believe in helping the world become a better place. Many American's idea of a better world is one where no one but America has any capability to do anything
Cleon
King of the Pod People
Re: Re: Re: Re: China Launched!
Yes, yes, I know, China bad, US good.
But back to reality for a moment. The US has openly declared its intention to attack and invade anyone, for whatever reason, if Bush has decided said country might someday, somehow be a threat. Bush has openly embraced a first-strike nuclear philosophy (as opposed to the aptly-named "MAD" scenario). Bush also believes that God is talking to him and is "guiding" his actions.
So let me go over this again. A man who believes that supernatural voices are telling him how to act is in charge of nuclear weapons, the world's largest arsenal, and has publicly stated he plans to use it based on what the voice tells him. And you don't think balance to this is good?
Giz said:
Yes, yes, I know, China bad, US good.
But back to reality for a moment. The US has openly declared its intention to attack and invade anyone, for whatever reason, if Bush has decided said country might someday, somehow be a threat. Bush has openly embraced a first-strike nuclear philosophy (as opposed to the aptly-named "MAD" scenario). Bush also believes that God is talking to him and is "guiding" his actions.
So let me go over this again. A man who believes that supernatural voices are telling him how to act is in charge of nuclear weapons, the world's largest arsenal, and has publicly stated he plans to use it based on what the voice tells him. And you don't think balance to this is good?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: China Launched!
Oh, don't get me wrong, Bush has his not so good points.
My point is merely that for the counter balancing force to be a good thing requires the new superpower to be a little bit good. Otherwise you'll get cold wars, arms races, nukes stockpiled and zeroed in on cities.
I fail to see how, for example, Pyongyang developing a sizable nuclear deterrant would make the world a safer place!
Cleon said:
Oh, don't get me wrong, Bush has his not so good points.
My point is merely that for the counter balancing force to be a good thing requires the new superpower to be a little bit good. Otherwise you'll get cold wars, arms races, nukes stockpiled and zeroed in on cities.
I fail to see how, for example, Pyongyang developing a sizable nuclear deterrant would make the world a safer place!
rikzilla
Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2001
- Messages
- 5,009
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: China Launched!
No, balance of this type is counter-productive and destabilising. Unless of course you believe nuclear proliferation to be "A Good Thing"?? Remember, this is the totalitarian nation currently repressing Tibet in a most brutal way.
China is too big and powerful to be bullied by anyone, even the US. They do not give their common people a voice in gov't, so they are run by a small ruling clique which has ultimate power. The US, OTOH, is a constitutional democracy and the executive is balanced by the legislative and judicial branches.
In other words Cleon, "Dubya" does not have an unrestrained thumb on the nuclear button....but can we say the same for the Chinese?
It is my hope that we continue to fully engage China in every way and that they peacefully evolve into a more open culture. Looking at the obvious good side of the Chinese space program,.. perhaps we could get them to contribute and participate in the ISS??
-z
Cleon said:
No, balance of this type is counter-productive and destabilising. Unless of course you believe nuclear proliferation to be "A Good Thing"?? Remember, this is the totalitarian nation currently repressing Tibet in a most brutal way.
China is too big and powerful to be bullied by anyone, even the US. They do not give their common people a voice in gov't, so they are run by a small ruling clique which has ultimate power. The US, OTOH, is a constitutional democracy and the executive is balanced by the legislative and judicial branches.
In other words Cleon, "Dubya" does not have an unrestrained thumb on the nuclear button....but can we say the same for the Chinese?
It is my hope that we continue to fully engage China in every way and that they peacefully evolve into a more open culture. Looking at the obvious good side of the Chinese space program,.. perhaps we could get them to contribute and participate in the ISS??
-z
Also very possible, it doesn't stretch credibility to believe that the Chinese government picked up some laid off Russian space talent (the Russians have had to cut waaay back, even with the US throwing money at them for ISS).Kropotkin said:
However, according to some people I worked with a few years back, Clinton's administration ok'd giving China technical assistance on their missiles because US companies were hiring them to put satellites into orbit (which was much cheaper) but their reliability was pretty crappy. So Clinton allowed some engineers to help them get the satellites in orbit. This did help get the satellites in orbit, it also saved China's ICBM (and I assume manned space program) a couple decades of research.
Mind you, I heard this from guys working at a defense contractor, so you may want to take it with a grain of salt (let's just say say they weren't fans of Clinton to begin with), but I have actually heard what American appears to be refering to. No idea of how accurate the info is, but it certainly seemed believable.
DanishDynamite
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2001
- Messages
- 10,752
This is excellent news indeed! I hope the Taikonaut makes it back safely.
As others have pointed out, I hope this reinvigorates the space race. I read somewhere that China has plans to make a Moon base. If that doesn't get Europe and the USA up on their toes, nothing will. Excellent stuff!
As far as this achievement leading to MRV ICBMs, I thought China already had these? They ceratinly have ICBMs and have had them for a long time.
As others have pointed out, I hope this reinvigorates the space race. I read somewhere that China has plans to make a Moon base. If that doesn't get Europe and the USA up on their toes, nothing will. Excellent stuff!
As far as this achievement leading to MRV ICBMs, I thought China already had these? They ceratinly have ICBMs and have had them for a long time.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: China Launched!
GAWD...
I am sorry, but this is soooooooo stupid.
According to you we better give ICBMs to North Korea, you know for "balance."
Do you really think Bush is on the verge of launching a nuclear strike?
You probably do...Heck you think Mumia is innocent.
Look I know being an extreme leftist has a certain radical chic , but that hardly means you have to check your brain at the door.
Cleon said:
GAWD...
I am sorry, but this is soooooooo stupid.
According to you we better give ICBMs to North Korea, you know for "balance."
Do you really think Bush is on the verge of launching a nuclear strike?
You probably do...Heck you think Mumia is innocent.
Look I know being an extreme leftist has a certain radical chic , but that hardly means you have to check your brain at the door.