Chief Justice Moore refuses to remove 10 commandments

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Yup...someone noticed

........

"The second American Revolution begins!" Benham said ....

Huh? Jesus' name appears in the ten commandments?

This is what scares me about United States. There are so many vocal, fearful, right wing fundamentalist Christian Americans.

A 2nd revolution? Stating that is not responsible.

I am told over and over that these types of people are the minority, but there are reports showing that the fundies are growing in numbers, becoming bolder with their growing numbers. They are perceived as gaining political influence, and their messages are appealing to a lot of young Americans.

Perhaps I am just being paranoid, maybe my perception is fueled by X'ian fundamentalists' savvy use of the media. Maybe they really are not in any position to influence policies, judges, governments, and create a closer church/state realtionship. My perceptions could be wrong.

 

[hgc]

This is what scares me about United States. There are so many vocal, fearful, right wing fundamentalist Christian Americans.

A 2nd revolution? Stating that is not responsible.

...

I think this is why Randi broke his silence about religion a few weeks ago in his commentary. The same lack of critical thinking about the nature of the universe that leads to dowsers, homeopathy and feng shui also leads to this. And the threat is real.

 

[toddjh]

I am told over and over that these types of people are the minority, but there are reports showing that the fundies are growing in numbers, becoming bolder with their growing numbers.

That's true, but it's not as bad as it seems. The number of non-religious people is likewise growing. What's happening is that the population is polarizing. The number of "salad bar Christians" is shrinking as its members join the ranks of either the rational thinkers or the fundamentalists.

Currently, Christianity is socially acceptable, while atheism is not. However, as the number of non-religious people continues to grow, that will change -- especially as the fundamentalists grow more vocal also. I expect to see a huge increase in the political influence of secularists in the next 50 years.

Jeremy

 

[jj]

I think this is why Randi broke his silence about religion a few weeks ago in his commentary. The same lack of critical thinking about the nature of the universe that leads to dowsers, homeopathy and feng shui also leads to this. And the threat is real.

Ashcroft's list of judges, for instance. He's basically keeping a list of judges that support the constitution, and threatening to hold it against them.

When people start making lists like that, it's time to get a bit worried.

 

[Brown]

I think this is why Randi broke his silence about religion a few weeks ago in his commentary. The same lack of critical thinking about the nature of the universe that leads to dowsers, homeopathy and feng shui also leads to this. And the threat is real.

Similar considerations moved Steve Allen to publish his commentaries on religion and the Bible. Originally, he planned to publish them after his death, but he was so alarmed about movements to make Christianity the official religion of the United States that he decided not to publish them posthumously.

 

[King of the Americas]

I sent this letter to more than a dozen Alabama newspapers:

An open letter to all of those who support having a religious monument in a State building:

I would like to start by saying that 'I' am on God's side of this issue.

Secondly, I would like to suggest that those who support having a religious monument in a State Building have been misled.

The concept of Separation of Church & State was for the benefit of the believers. 'I' don't want MY BELIEF in God to be used to garner favor and support in institutions and buildings that clearly do not support and uphold God's Law.

By placing "God" on a whore house, you aren't going to change what goes on inside, you are just going to water down that which God truly represents and would stand for.

I know, that Our Country has adopted "God" into their motto, and emblazoned the word and image of God onto almost EVERY monument, building, or wall possible but that doesn't mean God supports ANY of those who built these things, the buildings themselves, or the people who use them.

I want the State to stop using MY BELIEF in God to garner support to their ill-conceived works, institutions, and causes.

A King is the very institution of Church & State working as one. The King says, "I am God's authority here on earth. Everything I say and do is of God, and with his authority." Americans disagreed with this stance, and we figured out that the King was just a man, who was quite fallible. Therefore, we concluded that to combine a 'perfect entity in God', with a most ‘imperfect entity in government created by the hands of manâ€(tm) would be a farce.

Now, I am not saying we shouldnâ€(tm)t strive for our governments to be more Godly. We SHOULD be more loving, forgiving, and understanding. We SHOULD think of the common welfare and safety of everyone. However, to say NOW that God is working actively with, in, and around 'state ran government'...

Well, I just don't see it.

I think the believers in Montgomery and the rest of America have been doped. God is NOT in the Pentagon, and he does NOT support War. His last messenger (Jesus Christ) said NOT to use violence to achieve your goals. And yet, these believers are supporting putting "God" on things most ungodly…

Herein lies the argument that NEEDS to be put forward:

God- Perfect, Good, in need of no change

Government by the Hands of Men- NOT perfect, inefficient, and in need of much repair and revision

These two entities are NOT alike, and have completely different agendas. Never shall the two be joined, and when it happens it is never good for the believers.

Put "God" on a building, and it will serve only to disarm your ability to question the motives of those inside. All that they need do is walk over to said monument and say, "Look, God is here and supports whatever we do, can't you see the monument!?"

Personally, I find it sad that so many are willing to have their private, personal relationship with their spiritual God USED and even ABUSED by those in government to build confidence in institutions that clearly don't support God, his laws, or his commands.

"God" belongs on a church, and in your hearts. NOT in a state owned and operated building.

 

[Upchurch]

Re: I sent this letter to more than a dozen Alabama newspapers:

The concept of Separation of Church & State was for the benefit of the believers. 'I' don't want MY BELIEF in God to be used to garner favor and support in institutions and buildings that clearly do not support and uphold God's Law.

This is exactly the position my fiancee has on the situation, but you phrased it much better. Bravo.

 

[Brown]

It just keeps getting better. From CNN:

Asked on CNN whether he would support an Islamic monument to the Koran in the rotunda of the federal building, Moore replied, "This nation was founded upon the laws of God, not upon the Koran. That's clear in the Declaration (of Independence), so it wouldn't fit history and it wouldn't fit law."

Wow, there's a back-handed insult to Islam, stunning ignorance of history and astonishing ignorance of law, all in two short sentences!

On "Hardball" last night, the "host" (I put the word in quotation marks because he was astonishingly rude to his guests, asking them questions and then interrupting them before they could answer) asked a lawyer for Americans United for Separation of Church and State whether a statue of Venus (e.g., one holding the scales of justice) would be appropriate in a governmental building. She was interrupted before she could answer (she used to answering formally, rather than in sound bites), but she should have said, "We're not talking about a statue of Moses here." Or, she could have said, "If that monument said, 'The Ten Commandments OF VENUS,' it would still be constitutionally improper."

 

[hammegk]

Ashcroft's list of judges, for instance. He's basically keeping a list of judges that support the constitution....

What do you think? Two names, maybe three? I agree there is no need for a separate list. The current crop of judiciary seems to be nothing but constitution breakers usurping legislatures.

 

[King of the Americas]

Thanks Upchurch:

This letter will appear in the Mongomery Advertiser.

What amazes me is that NONE of the believers are stating this argument.

 

[hgc]

What do you think? Two names, maybe three? I agree there is no need for a separate list. The current crop of judiciary seems to be nothing but constitution breakers usurping legislatures.

Thanks for piping in with your usual level of relevant analysis, that is to say: none. Did your magic *I* tell you to say that?

Anyway, I look forward to a reasoned explication on what "constituion break[ing]" means and a specific breakdown on the current judiciary's performance in that area. Or even a list of cogent examples.

Let's face it, people have varying interpretations of the meanings of various articles and admendments of the constitution and of written laws. The courts are here to mediate disputes arising from those variances, and to pass judgement. Does anyone know of a better way of doing this?

 

[Wayne Grabert]

On "Hardball" last night, the "host" (I put the word in quotation marks because he was astonishingly rude to his guests, asking them questions and then interrupting them before they could answer) asked a lawyer for Americans United for Separation of Church and State whether a statue of Venus (e.g., one holding the scales of justice) would be appropriate in a governmental building.

Chris Matthews is such an ass that I never watch his show. It's a stupid question because it is a secular symbol that is never called Venus, but referred to as Lady Justice.

Here is another example.

There are plenty of other examples, but you get the point.

 

[Sundog]

Ya know what's shameful? To all of us?

Where's the counterdemonstration?

 

[Grammatron]

Ya know what's shameful? To all of us?

Where's the counterdemonstration?

All those people have real jobs and can't afford to be counter-demonstrating, besides, the courts are on our side, we've won! Why should we rub it in?

 

[hgc]

All those people have real jobs and can't afford to be counter-demonstrating, besides, the courts are on our side, we've won! Why should we rub it in?

I also have a job that keeps me from this important task.

But, we should rub it in because these people like to think that it's "the people" against the federal courts, or whatever this week's bugaboo is. They should see and feel the presense of other "people" who don't share their view.

 

[zakur]

Monument opposition says it won't seek contempt procedure against defiant chief justice

Lawyers seeking removal of a Ten Commandments monument from a judicial building's rotunda told a federal judge Friday they would not press to have the state's chief justice held in contempt for refusing to move it.

The lawyers also said they would not seek to have the state fined, telling U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson on a conference call that they were convinced the monument would be out of the state building by next week despite the resistance of Chief Justice Roy Moore.

"Our concern all along has been compliance with the constitution. Once the monument has been removed, our concerns will have been addressed," said attorney Ayesha Khan, who participated in the call.

 

[Brown]

Chris Matthews is such an ass that I never watch his show. It's a stupid question because it is a secular symbol that is never called Venus, but referred to as Lady Justice.

The Venus business caught me by surprise, too, as I had never heard of Lady Justice referred to as Venus. But even so, the irrelevance of the question and the bad analogy implied by it surprised me even more.

And Chris Matthews indeed behaved like an ass. I saw no news reporting on his show (except for the periodic interruptions for actual reports by someone else) and no intellectual discussion. It was a waste of bandwidth and not worth my time. I've played "Hardball" quite a few times in my life, but to my knowledge I've never been as ill-mannered as Matthews was.

 

[hgc]

This site give Chris Matthews a regular thumping for his sins: Daily Howler

 

[zakur]

From The Capital Times -- Editorial: A Wallace for today

The real point of this whole discussion is that Alabama has another top official who is preaching disobedience to the law. And, just as Alabamans still must live with the dark legacy of Wallace's illegality 40 years after his stance in the schoolhouse door, so they now are saddled with Moore. Had Alabamans rejected Wallace in the 1960s, they would have preserved a measure of their state's tattered honor. They failed to do so. Now, they have a chance to reject Moore and his lawlessness. If they fail to do so this time, they will doom their sorry state to another 40 years of backwardness, decline and ridicule.

The rest of the United States should look on the spectacle of Justice Moore leading that poor state into another fool's mission as a cautionary tale. The founders of this country were wise to favor strict separation between church and state. They were protecting both church and state.

Jefferson, Madison and their comrades - many of them men of faith, although not precisely the same faith - recognized that neither religion nor government would be well served when cynical politicians like Roy Moore tried to mix the two.

 

[subgenius]

They are not asking for Moore to be punished, which is a big mistake, for two reasons.

It will only encourage him to further defiance.
It will send a message that people in power can disobey court orders with impunity. You and I cannot.

Big mistake not to spank him.