Chi to be finally shown to exist

jmercer said:
No offense, but that's a dismissively simplistic misrepresentation. The idea of qi was not daft when created; when it was established, it was a deeply profound and sophisticated concept developed at a time when better information was unavailable. It would only be daft if the known facts at the time contradicted the concept - which they did not. The qi paradigm fit the then-observable phenomena perfectly because it was developed from said observable phenomena. The fact that it turned out to be untrue later on (except in highly specialized usages to describe specific physical techniques) is irrelevant to it's elegance and profundity.
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What was the definition of qi when it was created?

What were the observable phenomena at that time?
 
Paul2 said:
What was the definition of qi when it was created?

What were the observable phenomena at that time?
Click to expand...
I believe the first definition was the sound a duck makes if you don't hear well. There was some confusion about whether that sound was caused by the duck's breathing but when it was shown that ducks control their qi (quack) they started pitting the ducks against each other in qi matches.

Later, midgets began to masquerade as ducks, or rather duck opponents, and clobber the real duck before they could qi (quack). Soon qi matches were all about midgets. They'd sock and clobber one another while qi'ing. Soon champion duck dressed qi midgets quacked only once - when they won their match.

Qi midgets were hurting themselves and not making much money until they unionized and went professional. The World Qi Federation was a total sham but the fighters made the equivalent of millions. Their acrobatics amazed the crowds and the midgets started talking up their qi power. Only the old timers quacked anymore. Only the oldest fans even remembered duck fighting anyway.

I wish I could provide a link but apparently this all happened before the internet. If anyone knows more true facts please add or correct me. I'm doing this all from memory.

Hope this helps.
 
Atlas said:
I believe the first definition was the sound a duck makes if you don't hear well. There was some confusion about whether that sound was caused by the duck's breathing but when it was shown that ducks control their qi (quack) they started pitting the ducks against each other in qi matches.

Later, midgets began to masquerade as ducks, or rather duck opponents, and clobber the real duck before they could qi (quack). Soon qi matches were all about midgets. They'd sock and clobber one another while qi'ing. Soon champion duck dressed qi midgets quacked only once - when they won their match.

Qi midgets were hurting themselves and not making much money until they unionized and went professional. The World Qi Federation was a total sham but the fighters made the equivalent of millions. Their acrobatics amazed the crowds and the midgets started talking up their qi power. Only the old timers quacked anymore. Only the oldest fans even remembered duck fighting anyway.

I wish I could provide a link but apparently this all happened before the internet. If anyone knows more true facts please add or correct me. I'm doing this all from memory.

Hope this helps.
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Immensely.:crazy:
 
Paul2 said:
What was the definition of qi when it was created?

What were the observable phenomena at that time?
Click to expand...

The original definition of qi has to do with pre-birth and post-birth qi. Not that I'm lazy, but there's tons of information on those two concepts all over the place on the 'net - I'll leave it to you to Google 'em. Suffice to say that the Chinese believed that you were born with a quantity of pre-birth qi (determined by your parents and other factors), and when you used all of that up, you died.

The observable phenomena were exactly the same phenomena seen everywhere else in the world; in Europe, it let to theories of "vapors", "humors", etc. (along with other sundry nonsense). These beliefs led to techniques such as bleeding, leeching and other nutty "cures". Of course, Christianity had a major influence on the direction the theories followed in Europe.

In China, the observations led to different conclusions - the qi paradigm. (A much more logical viewpoint, albeit ust as incorrect as the European beliefs.)

The Chinese observed that if you deprive someone of food, water or air, they die. This led to the belief that people died because food, air and water were major sources of some other kind of qi - eventually called "post-birth qi". The thinking went that depriving them of those sources of post-birth qi forced their bodies to use pre-birth qi until it was gone... resulting in death.

The Chinese approach to longevity was to cultivate post-birth qi and conserve pre-birth qi via meditation, diet, herbs, acupuncture, sexual abstinence and so on. The primary goal was to conserve pre-birth qi by reducing it's usage through increased substitution of post-birth qi in situations where pre-birth qi would normally be used. The belief was that while some use of pre-birth qi was unavoidable, the quantity used could be reduced. Between this and the "initial" size of the store of pre-birth qi, the Chinese were able to explain varying life-spans.

No stranger to rationalization, people who didn't practice qi conservation but lived a long time were assumed to have had great stores of pre-birth qi.

FYI - the goal of many of the so-called Taoist Immortals was to discover a way to eliminate use of pre-birth qi entirely and to subsist on post-birth qi only - hence "immortality". :)

All sorts of meditations and visualizations were created to "enhance" the efficiency of qi use in the body; the Macrocosmic Orbit, the Microcosmic Orbit, and many forms of qi gongs were developed for that purpose. The qi paradigm was later extended (as I posted earlier) by many others to explain other phenomena. (A classic case of having a hammer, so every problem becomes a nail.)

Later on, of course, the qi paradigm was used to explain illnesses (qi blockages or imbalances opening the body to harm), and so forth. Early acupuncture and herbal treatments (Traditional Chinese Medicine) all center around the idea of removing those blockages and/or imbalances so the body can naturally prevent illness and heal itself.

I have a fair number of sources for this information, but not at work, and not on the web. If you're really that curious I'll dig them up and list them for you... but they're pretty easy to find, anyway. :)

It was either this, or ducks... :D
 
I understand the confusion Kimpatsu, but know this, whatever you are refering to in Japanese, its not what I was referencing. So the whole point was irrelavant. I was talking about CHINESE definitions.

I don't care if you are a linquist whatever. Chinese Mandarin is my NATIVE language and I am quite fluent in it.

I have been practicing martial arts since I was 20 years old. I am now 38. I came to the United States when I was 10 years old.

Incidentally Qi is Cantonese for Chi, which is Mandarin. Written Chinese has changed over the years but it is unrelated to dialect. There is only 2 official written Chinese set of characters, Longhand and shorthand. The shorthand was further developed during the communists years cause those lazy bums never really worked a day in their life and it reflected in their writing also.

The explaination from jmercer about prebirth qi and afterbirth qi is exactly what I was talking about when I refered to chi and real chi... However now I can't remember which was which but the afterbirth qi is the one where you develop as you grow, its like your normal physical energy.
 
Well if chi is tempurature regulation and chi orginates in a well structured system of society in which some martial artist bond with cold blooded creatures, than this is not far off...

Alchemy is simular... ores and acids...causing a strange chemical reaction like that of radiation or nuclear waste. Also, if the moon consist of ores that were once with in thee atmosphere... defied basic earth physics, such as momentum in force, we would be more metal inclined enities...inwhich we would be super electric...And you can see in nature how ancient societies have worked around these baci nessicities and wants, such as pyramids consisting of lime stone, and other ores and stones...that are inducting natural grounded statlites...that makes these so called magic men of kabbalh routed power...
Which shoes up in free masotic esoteric art, such as the dollar bill...

If one can magnetize them selves enough to cause heat, as well as heating tissue from means of acidified organs (weird alchemy effect?)..They CAN draw in charged paticles to create fire...


In accupuncture, the needles make up for lack of metal properties...
 
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The elementalist said:
Well if chi is tempurature regulation and chi orginates in a well structured system of society in which some martial artist bond with cold blooded creatures, than this is not far off...

Alchemy is simular... ores and acids...causing a strange chemical reaction like that of radiation or nuclear waste. Also, if the moon consist of ores that were once with in thee atmosphere... defied basic earth physics, such as momentum in force, we would be more metal inclined enities...inwhich we would be super electric...And you can see in nature how ancient societies have worked around these baci nessicities and wants, such as pyramids consisting of lime stone, and other ores and stones...that are inducting natural grounded statlites...that makes these so called magic men of kabbalh routed power...
Which shoes up in free masotic esoteric art, such as the dollar bill...

If one can magnetize them selves enough to cause heat, as well as heating tissue from means of acidified organs (weird alchemy effect?)..They CAN draw in charged paticles to create fire...


In accupuncture, the needles make up for lack of metal properties...
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WHAAAA???

Okay, take that from the top... Martial artists bond with cold blooded creatures? Chi is temperature regulation? Can you explain, please?
 
I understand you misunderstanding....is it that unclear? Have you ever expereinced chi, aside from thoughts of disease and virus or can you not even imagine?

It is the control of electrical properties with in and in enviorment, I was assumin...you would know this.
 
The elementalist said:
I understand you misunderstanding....is it that unclear? Have you ever expereinced chi, aside from thoughts of disease and virus or can you not even imagine?

It is the control of electrical properties with in and in enviorment, I was assumin...you would know this.
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I think you're changing your definition of "chi." I asked why you said chi was temperature regulation, and instead of answering my question you added electrical properties and disease to the definition.
 
Yes, I neologize...no I did not change the menaing for this though...I merely stated thee obvious, assuming your were more stable, intellectually...
 
My ability to comprehend your wisdom depends on your ability to form coherent sentences, which is currently nil.
 
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