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Chemtrails

Hello everyone, I'm new to this whole JREF forum thing.

Regarding chemtrails: try telling "believers" about this, and they'll come up with anything they can to tell you that you're wrong and they're right. I'm a skeptic, but because I don't flat-out believe everything I'm told, I've been labeled a "skeptoid" by a certain group of believers. And a troll... but that's another story.

I see these "chemtrails" all the time. There are dozens of them in the sky at once. If there was actually something to this, then there would have to be thousands of pilots involved in this conspiracy. I drive about 50 miles every day, so that's really a small area. According to believers, these "chemtrails" appear in this kind of abundance all over the country, in big cities, small cities, everywhere!

Then, like Paul said, SO MANY people would have to be involved! SOMEONE would let it slip! Or at least, someone would say, "gee, isn't it interesting that we have all this equipment on the plane? I wonder what it's used for?"

Unless we're assuming that this equipment is already built into every plane, but not every plane uses it. That way they could avoid suspicion. But what about the mechanics? People don't just walk around with their heads in the clouds.
 
People who would know about chemtrails, if there were any:

* civilian pilots
* civilian mechanics
* military pilots
* military mechanics
* retrofitters (for example, me)
* flight sim people
* pilot training schools
* people who generate training material for the pilots
* people who generate training material for the maintance crew
* people who generate training material for the chemical producing people
* QA for training material for the pilots
* QA for training material for the maintance crew
* QA for training material for the chemical producing people
* anyone with access to a CAD drawing of an airplane (a heck of a lot of people)
* producers of the chemtrail spraying equipment
* shippers of the chemtrail spraying equipment
* FAA inspectors
* truck drivers (somebody has to deliver the material to the airport)
* airline accountants (somebody is keeping track of the bottom line)
* receiving departments at airport (somebody has to take delivery)
* maintenance personnal - gotta fill those chem tanks
* anyone with an interest in flight who has stuck their head in a cockpit (once you learn a cockpit layout, you can pick out things that don't belong there pretty quickly)
* congress (somebody has to pay for this)
* a bunch of government employees that are making the payments, reviewing accounts, inspecting operations, reviewing reports
* scientists who are researching new ways of doing this spraying
* the printers who are printing - training material, CAD drawings, aircraft manuals, NATOPS manuals, FAA manuals, scientific reports
* aircraft designers
* QA for aircraft designs
* people who write test plans
* QA for test plans
* test pilots
* employees that report on spraying results
* air quality testers - you have to see how well you are doing
* QA for air quality testers
* printers for the air quality testers results

I'm sure I missed some segments of the industry, but this is a good start at the amount of infrastructure that has needed access to this kind of information. And note that I left out most of the infrastructure for whatever agency is commanding this in the first place. This is necessarily a global agency, since these trails are seen throughout the wolrd.

Ya, this sounds more plausable than condensation.
 
Just to play devil's advocate here. We are talking about a country where treatment was deliberately withheld from civilians to document the progress of a disease (Tuskeegee), civilian terminal leukema patients were unknowingly exposed to lethal doses of radiation to study the effects of radiation poisoning (1945-1970), New Yorkers were exposed to a relatively harmless bacteria in subways in subways to chart the dispersion patterns of biological attacks (1966). Such a government (or more spercifically some agency within such a government) might consider experimenting with dispersion rates of specific bacteria. So, at one level, the idea is not as kooky as it sounds.

Of course, such an experiment would never be carried out by spraying long clouds of material out of the back of jetliners flying at tens of thousands of feet (for the many reasons cited in previous posts).


_______________

I don't expect it to become an addiction, though, but thanks for reminding me; I'd better register at least one sockpuppet there, just in case....
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You disappointed me Hans. I was looking forward to a response along the lines of: "I am not addicted - I get banned from forums on a social basis only. I can quit getting banned anytime I want to; I just don't want to."
 
People who would know about chemtrails, if there were any:

* civilian pilots
* civilian mechanics
* military pilots
* military mechanics
* retrofitters (for example, me)
* flight sim people
* pilot training schools
* people who generate training material for the pilots
* people who generate training material for the maintance crew
* people who generate training material for the chemical producing people
* QA for training material for the pilots
* QA for training material for the maintance crew
* QA for training material for the chemical producing people
* anyone with access to a CAD drawing of an airplane (a heck of a lot of people)
* producers of the chemtrail spraying equipment
* shippers of the chemtrail spraying equipment
* FAA inspectors
* truck drivers (somebody has to deliver the material to the airport)
* airline accountants (somebody is keeping track of the bottom line)
* receiving departments at airport (somebody has to take delivery)
* maintenance personnal - gotta fill those chem tanks
* anyone with an interest in flight who has stuck their head in a cockpit (once you learn a cockpit layout, you can pick out things that don't belong there pretty quickly)
* congress (somebody has to pay for this)
* a bunch of government employees that are making the payments, reviewing accounts, inspecting operations, reviewing reports
* scientists who are researching new ways of doing this spraying
* the printers who are printing - training material, CAD drawings, aircraft manuals, NATOPS manuals, FAA manuals, scientific reports
* aircraft designers
* QA for aircraft designs
* people who write test plans
* QA for test plans
* test pilots
* employees that report on spraying results
* air quality testers - you have to see how well you are doing
* QA for air quality testers
* printers for the air quality testers results
Click to expand...

Yes all these people are involved, but have you considered the reason that we don't notice them all is that they are UN employees who, while working in the US, do not speak English so they cannot faternize with the civilian population? Of course, if that is the case you have to add all the contractors necessary to build secret airports, but given the size of the UN's black budget, that should not be a problem.

* employees that report on spraying results
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Actually, it would be easier for the secret agency to just read the monthly CDC reports about hospital admissions.
 
An interesting point: For some reason, Denmark is not on the list of countries where spraying is supposed to occur. Yet, I have seen repetitions of every single formation they post pictures of, and some even more weird, right above me, in Danish skies. And for about five decades, too.

Sorry, Ladewig, I realize now I'm in denial. Banneholics Anonymous made me realize this ;).

Hans
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Hello, Kate! Everyone, meet my friend Kate. Treat her nicely.

~~ Paul
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Thanks Paul! Paul has helped open my eyes to the finer points of being a skeptic ...
 
Ladewig said:
Just to play devil's advocate here. We are talking about a country where treatment was deliberately withheld from civilians to document the progress of a disease (Tuskeegee), civilian terminal leukema patients were unknowingly exposed to lethal doses of radiation to study the effects of radiation poisoning (1945-1970), New Yorkers were exposed to a relatively harmless bacteria in subways in subways to chart the dispersion patterns of biological attacks (1966). Such a government (or more spercifically some agency within such a government) might consider experimenting with dispersion rates of specific bacteria. So, at one level, the idea is not as kooky as it sounds.
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Yes, but we know about those, don't we? There is documented proof for those instances. Where is the documented proof for chemtrails?
 
Lets get this clear: Something that could well be termed "chemtrails" exist.

- Cropdusters make chemtrails.

- Fire-fighters make chemtrails (often, the water is chemically treated for better effect).

- Various experiments have been conducted in the past, sometimes without telling the public in advance, where high-flying planes have sprayed stuff over some area, usually for the purpose of tracking pollution and wind-systems and their interaction.

- Various weather-control experiments, like cloud-seeding etc.

Some of these things have been perfectly legitimate, others perhaps debatable, but those things are not what I want to challenge.

The modern heavy air-traffic constitutes a treat to our environment as a heavy source of several kinds of emissions, I do not challenge this.

What I DO challenge is the idea that a continent-wide, or possibly global, secret project is ongoing, regularly spraying large areas with some unknown chemicals for some unknown reason.

Hans
 
Yes, but we know about those, don't we? There is documented proof for those instances. Where is the documented proof for chemtrails?
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The documented proof in those examples came out years or decades after the "experiments." The proof was not in the form of individual cases of sickness or death, the proof was in the form of leaked documents. The lack of documented proof of chemtrails at this time does not lessen the possibility of the motivation for this type of experimenting. But I agree with all that has been said: the physics, biology, and logistics behind these claims does eliminate the possibility of using chemtrails for this purpose.

My point was not that chemtrail experimenting was possible, but merely that the ideas behind chemtrail spraying was not as kooky as one might first think. I am not taking this position as a government conspiracist. I am just pointing out that both sides should be considered.
 
I am just pointing out that both sides should be considered.
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Of course both sides should be considered.

However as the "chemtrail" side has only conjecture and no evidence, the consideration won't be very impressive.

For more serious consideration, the advocates of the chemtrail conspiracy will need to present credible evidence.
 
Ladewig said:

Yes all these people are involved, but have you considered the reason that we don't notice them all is that they are UN employees who, while working in the US, do not speak English so they cannot faternize with the civilian population?
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Given that I am one of those people (work on airplanes, not employee of UN), and I evidently speak English, no I didn't consider it :D
 
Two of the funnier arguments I have heard from 'chemtrailers':

1. Chemtrails cannot be ordinary exhaust contrails, because they can be seen coming from tanks under the wings of the plane instead of from the back.

Er, those 'tanks' under the wings are called 'engines'.

2. Chemtrails are used to form artificial clouds, because whenever I see a chemtrail, the sky starts to fill with cirrus clouds.

No ◊◊◊◊ sherlock. Seeing as 'chemtrails' ARE a kind of cirrus cloud, isn't pretty obvious they would both form under the same conditions?

:bs:
 
I walked by a guy at work who was talking about chemtrails to another guy. These people actually exist.

I also worked with a computer programmer who completely bought into the moon landing hoax stuff, especially the no-stars-in-the-photos "problem".


My (future) wife said to him, "You are a smart man. Why do you believe this stuff?"
 
I work with someone who produces chemtrails. You can't see the kind she produces, but bygollybydam, you sure can tell that she has passed by in the last hour. Can't breathe in the same building!
 
Ah, yes. What you probably mean is perfume, but there is another kind of personal chemtrails, too. You know, fartwalking; you need to break wind, and not to be too conspiquous, you do it while walking briskly across a large room, like office landscape or production hall. Dilutes the effect and most importantly, makes it difficult to guess the source ;). Nasty thing is when somebody stops you and wants to talk..........


Hans
 
I have been banned on one chemtrail page (surprise, surprise :rolleyes: ), but I am thinking of registering a sockpuppet there and go troll them a bit: I'll tell them I'm a chemtrail pilot and give them a lot of fancy stories. Yank their chains a bit. Would that be cruel?

Hans :D
 
I'll tell them I'm a chemtrail pilot and give them a lot of fancy stories. Yank their chains a bit. Would that be cruel?
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I cannot condone such behavior (which should probably include a description of how you started telling people about the chemtrails and then the government came and injected you with a drug and now you have all the symptoms of Gulf War Syndrom.) Nope, that type of posting is not condonable.
 
Ladewig is right

It is wrong, just wrong, to twit foolish people. Their skulls are almost always so numb they can't feel their legs being pulled.
 
MRC_Hans said:
I have been banned on one chemtrail page (surprise, surprise :rolleyes: ), but I am thinking of registering a sockpuppet there and go troll them a bit: I'll tell them I'm a chemtrail pilot and give them a lot of fancy stories. Yank their chains a bit. Would that be cruel?

Hans :D
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It would be counter-productive. They'd just wave your posts as evidence that their ideas are correct, and if you stepped forward to claim credit for faking the posts, they'll say you're lying and weren't the one that posted them.

Hmmm... you could embed some kind of code in the statement, "bible-code" style... your name, for example, or "I AM FULL OF BALONEY"

As for my own thoughts...

Here in florida, around 1997 I think it was, the government actually DID spray annoying chemicals on us from airplanes. There was some kind of trouble with fruit flies destroying crops, so they took a bunch of DC-9's and sprayed malathion all over the place. The reason I know this is true is because: I saw the planes, I saw the residue on cars and such. I heard about it on the mainstream local news.

What I didn't see was "chemtrails" coming from the planes. They looked like they were just flying over.
 
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