Chemicals

[Elizabeth I]

At this point I usually give up, but if I really want to have fun, I start talking about Dihydrogen Oxide and what a dangerous chemical it is. That it is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds if not thousands every year. But it's still found in almost every home in America.
QUOTE]

Don't forget that it is very close to a universal solvent, a major cause of soil erosion, and the chemical present in the largest quantities in polluted lakes and streams.

 

[Floyd]

People who buy "organic" food are idiots. They pay twice as much for horrible-looking, brown-spotted produce which is actually potentially more harmful to them than "normal" food because no pesticides or herbicides have been used to get rid of all the "natural" diseases and bacteria.

I once knew someone who owned a small shop. He used to take all the brown eggs out of the cartons, put them in paper bags, and sell them as "organic free-range" for twice the price! Now that's entrepreneurial thinking.

 

[exarch]

Since I have no idea I will ask, what would happen to a person who had a spoon full of plutonium?

Cancer I suppose. Probably thyroid cancer or some such, since I think that's where the radioactive particles would end up being stored. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

You'd die eventually, but not as quickly as the person eating a spoonfull of arsenic.

 

[Cuddles]

Cancer I suppose. Probably thyroid cancer or some such, since I think that's where the radioactive particles would end up being stored. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

You'd die eventually, but not as quickly as the person eating a spoonfull of arsenic.

Most heavy metals are extremely toxic. If you ate a spoonful of plutonium you would probably die well before the radiation could have any significant effect. I don't imagine there have been many tests of this though.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Most heavy metals are extremely toxic. If you ate a spoonful of plutonium you would probably die well before the radiation could have any significant effect. I don't imagine there have been many tests of this though.

Yes it is toxic, but how much metalic plutonium would get obsorbed by the body while it was present?

Oh there where also a number of tests where people where injected with plutonium

 

[apocalypse]

Chemicals are evil and must be destroyed. Unless they're natural of course, like arsenic.

Or hemlock...

 

[fuelair]

I'm still pissed about the Woos making me stop burning lead in my gasoline. And paint, you can't get lead paint anymore. Why do nutjobs get to tell me I can't use lead? Next thing you know, they will try to take the mercury out of my teeth. Mercury. Everybody knows mercury can't hurt you.

At least not to the level and ways they say Mercury can. My HS chem teacher heated cinnabar in open test tube in class - showed us how Hg formed. Nobody died - or even got sick. For my first 30 years of life playing with Hg was common (coating pennies, rolling it around in hands, dropping on floors everywhere (usually by accident). We just weren't dumb enough to eat/drink it and we still seem to be here, brain function apparently unimpaired.

 

[fuelair]

We just saw a Kellog's commercial this morning for their new line of "organic" breakfast foods....


Next we'll see an organic Twinkie.

Bad idea - the non-organic ones are reputably known to be able to be stored uncovered for 10+ years and remain unharmed. I suspect organically grown twinkies would have a much shorter lifespan.

 

[apocalypse]

Since I have no idea I will ask, what would happen to a person who had a spoon full of plutonium?

Nothing. Plutonium is not absorbed by the stomach or intestines.

I'm sure you would get a constant dose of radiation while it took the 4-8 hours (or longer depending on your BM's) for the contents to pass through, but it certainly would not kill you outright.

 

[Almo]

We just saw a Kellog's commercial this morning for their new line of "organic" breakfast foods....


Next we'll see an organic Twinkie.

There ARE organic Cheetos. Haven't tried them yet...

 

[fuelair]

I used to have a really annoying coworker. One of her myriad beliefs/paranoias was a strong fear of "chemicals" and a blind faith in any label that had the word "organic" or "natural". She was convinced that so much as a whiff of Lysol Disinfectant Spray is dangerous. Here's a direct quote from The Enlightened One: "The chemicals in that Lysol someone sprayed is making my face go numb."

Theoretically with the older version of Lysol she might have been correct (phenol - also in Chloroseptic which numbs throat). Doesn't make her right about the danger.

 

[jon]

People who buy "organic" food are idiots. They pay twice as much for horrible-looking, brown-spotted produce which is actually potentially more harmful to them than "normal" food because no pesticides or herbicides have been used to get rid of all the "natural" diseases and bacteria.

That's not justified (OK, I buy organic food, so I would claim not to be an idiot ). You can often buy organic veg where you couldn't get that type of veg as 'non-organic' food (and often get 'better' breeds of the veg or meat), and organic box schemes mean that in many areas you can get organic fruit and veg (delivered) for about the same price as less tasty 'normal' veg in a supermarket. 'Premium' food often also uses organic ingredients - for example, well-baked bread often uses organic flour (presumably, this is a pretty marginal cost if you're selling expensive bread...) I'm sure there's other sensible reasons to buy organic food too (e.g. ready meals can't contain transfats...)

None of these are reasons to buy organic food because it's organic - but there are plenty of other reasons why buying organic food might be a good idea. So far as I know, the extra risks from eating organic as opposed to 'conventional' food are minimal (and I'm not going to worry too much about eating cabbage damaging my health )

 

[mumchup]

Theoretically with the older version of Lysol she might have been correct (phenol - also in Chloroseptic which numbs throat). Doesn't make her right about the danger.

Except that it was a can of Lysol that was purchased within the last year.

 

[Grimoire]

Organic farming allows for a list of "natural" pesticides (how much pesticides are actually used? I have no idea, I have yet to see a serious study on the issue). As far as "more harmful" than the regular stuff I'm not sure. The list of allowed pesticides has been posted at least twice before on this forum and no one knowledgeable enough on the subject came to discussed how it compared to what is widely used in regular "industrial" agriculture.

I googled for allowed organic pesticides, and one of the first links was an article entitled: Surprise! Organic Farming Shift Increases Pesticide Use; Toxic 'Organic' Chemicals Pose Undisclosed Concerns

Apparently

The "natural" pesticides used by organic farmers are among the most heavily used, toxic, and persistent in American agriculture today

I guess all those organic buyers really aren't saving the world...

I always assumed, like most people, that organic meant that no pesticides, insecticides, or fungicides were used. I guess it just means "more expensive". Glad I never buy that stuff...

The full article can be found at: http://ipm.osu.edu/trans/02_091.htm

 

[Jorghnassen]

The article you mention was produced by the Center for Global Food Issues, written by Alex Avery. It's not an actual peer-reviewed scientific paper in a respectable journal. If you agree that one should not present pro-organic farming papers demonizing standard agriculture, then for the same reasons one should not trust agenda driven papers with sensationalist headlines doing the opposite.

 

[Grimoire]

The article you mention was produced by the Center for Global Food Issues, written by Alex Avery. It's not an actual peer-reviewed scientific paper in a respectable journal. If you agree that one should not present pro-organic farming papers demonizing standard agriculture, then for the same reasons one should not trust agenda driven papers with sensationalist headlines doing the opposite.

I agree. Any idea if anyone has published similar material in a peer reviewed journal?

 

[Jorghnassen]

I agree. Any idea if anyone has published similar material in a peer reviewed journal?

That is one of the problems. There are very few. The only one I could find (I don't have time to look for it now) was on pesticide residue in organic food vs conventional food (in the sense of samples taken from products that are on the shelves of grocery stores, no at some prior point in production). And, unsurprisingly there was much less pesticide residue in organic food (1/3 as much IIRC, but not none) than in conventionally produced food. But the researchers had only tested for standard pesticides and not the 'natural' ones commonly used in organic farming. So on that front, I have yet to find anything serious and academic.

 

[fuelair]

Except that it was a can of Lysol that was purchased within the last year.

Suspected that and tested on hand a short time after writing this - no numbing even in the senitive web areas. She might be allergic to benzalkonium chloride or ethyl alcohol.

 

[Floyd]

That's not justified (OK, I buy organic food, so I would claim not to be an idiot ). You can often buy organic veg where you couldn't get that type of veg as 'non-organic' food (and often get 'better' breeds of the veg or meat), and organic box schemes mean that in many areas you can get organic fruit and veg (delivered) for about the same price as less tasty 'normal' veg in a supermarket. 'Premium' food often also uses organic ingredients - for example, well-baked bread often uses organic flour (presumably, this is a pretty marginal cost if you're selling expensive bread...) I'm sure there's other sensible reasons to buy organic food too (e.g. ready meals can't contain transfats...)

None of these are reasons to buy organic food because it's organic - but there are plenty of other reasons why buying organic food might be a good idea. So far as I know, the extra risks from eating organic as opposed to 'conventional' food are minimal (and I'm not going to worry too much about eating cabbage damaging my health )

Point taken Jon.

Another issue: If the entire food industry of the world went "organic", so much land would be needed that all the forests of the world would have to be bulldozed to make way for farming, and you still wouldn't have enough food to feed everyone.

 

[mumchup]

Suspected that and tested on hand a short time after writing this - no numbing even in the senitive web areas. She might be allergic to benzalkonium chloride or ethyl alcohol.

No. She's just bat(bleep) crazy. She had Lyme disease a few years ago (caught quickly/medicated/all better). Recently, she woke up with a stiff neck and decided that her "Lyme disease is acting up". When her doctor told her that the tests came back negative she fired him because "he's a quack" and began medicating herself with hourly doses of garlic pills. Because according to her you can cure Lyme disease with garlic.