Charles Koch on the Justice System

Donal

Philosopher
Donal
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In the "Did Not See That One Coming" category, Charles Koch, one of the billionaire brothers responsible for influencing a lot of government policy (mainly through Republicans) wants to do things like ease sentencing on non-violent offenders and put more money into public defenders in order to make things more fair for underprivileged defendants.

And look who he is allying with

The Eagle reports that Koch has unofficially teamed up with progressive mega-donor George Soros and the American Civil Liberties Union to address prison reform. Koch has also earned praise from outgoing U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, who told The Marshall Project that Koch's donation to the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, which funds training for attorneys who represent those in need, was a positive force. According to reports, Koch has been a supporter of the organization since 2004.
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Along with the greater attention to how police deal with citizens, does this look like we're going to see some changes to a justice system that has been heavily criticized for its inequality and harshness to disadvantaged people?

Does Koch have a side game going on here? Does he benefit from this materially? Or is this real altruism from someone accused of manipulating the government for his own gain?
 
Donal said:
Does Koch have a side game going on here? Does he benefit from this materially? Or is this real altruism from someone accused of manipulating the government for his own gain?
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Maybe he was visited by three spirits a few days ago?

Whatever the reason, if true, good on him.
 
Donal said:
In the "Did Not See That One Coming" category, Charles Koch, one of the billionaire brothers responsible for influencing a lot of government policy (mainly through Republicans) wants to do things like ease sentencing on non-violent offenders and put more money into public defenders in order to make things more fair for underprivileged defendants.

And look who he is allying with



Along with the greater attention to how police deal with citizens, does this look like we're going to see some changes to a justice system that has been heavily criticized for its inequality and harshness to disadvantaged people?

Does Koch have a side game going on here? Does he benefit from this materially? Or is this real altruism from someone accused of manipulating the government for his own gain?
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There is actually another possibility, which is that the Koch brothers have been unfairly demonized by Democrats for purely partisan reasons. It's unsurprising that such a possibility didn't even enter your mind, but it is actually the truth. The Kochs are libertarians, and they almost certainly champion their various causes without regard to the direct economic consequences for themselves. The notion that people who have a net worth of tens of billions of dollars care more about accumulating even more wealth at the expense of their reputation is pretty far-fetched.
 
they are Libertarian in the "don't regulate business" sense. Granted, if I were a billionaire, I'd be preaching that "invisible hand" nonsense too.

The notion that people who have a net worth of tens of billions of dollars care more about accumulating even more wealth at the expense of their reputation is pretty far-fetched.
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I see you aren't a professional sports fan. I can name several billionaires that don't give a damn about a bad reputation. They will happily use their toys to milk billions from tax payers.
 
Donal said:
they are Libertarian in the "don't regulate business" sense. Granted, if I were a billionaire, I'd be preaching that "invisible hand" nonsense too.
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Your ignorance is showing.


I see you aren't a professional sports fan. I can name several billionaires that don't give a damn about a bad reputation. They will happily use their toys to milk billions from tax payers.
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No, I'm not a professional sports fan. I can't quite understand the appeal, to be honest, nor why any one would give a **** about whether "their" "city's" team won or not. I do understand something about the business though and realize that the valuations of sports teams are absurdly high relative to their fundamentals as an investment (i.e. discounted future cash flow and all that). No doubt the owners who are stingy with the "investments" really can't afford to be anything other than stingy. That situation arises quite a bit for owners who don't have the cash flow to match their billionaire-on-paper-only status. I predict that a "real" billionaire like Steve Ballmer will not be stingy.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Your ignorance is showing.
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Well ,that was certainly insightful.


I do understand something about the business though and realize that the valuations of sports teams are absurdly high relative to their fundamentals as an investment (i.e. discounted future cash flow and all that).
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On the surface, absolutely, they are horrible as a traditional invesment by themselves. It is their ancillary revenue streams that bring i nthe dollars (regional sports networks, publicly financed tax fraud...err stadia, etc etc)

No doubt the owners who are stingy with the "investments" really can't afford to be anything other than stingy.
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No, that really isn't true. George Steinbrenner actually had among the lowest personal wealth of any baseball owner. In fact, he may be the only professional sports team owner whose team was his primary source of income.

For guys like Jerry Reinsdorf and Carl Pohland (before he died) a sports franchise is a toy that can bring in revenue with out much investment.

And then there is the garbage Jeffrey Loria pulled in Miami. Or what Dan Snyder does with the Redskins. You should ehar what my fellow Mets fans have to say about the Wilpons.

That situation arises quite a bit for owners who don't have the cash flow to match their billionaire-on-paper-only status. I predict that a "real" billionaire like Steve Ballmer will not be stingy.
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The owners all get together and institute a salary cap.

The majority of sports owners are billionaires and don't seem to give a damn about what people think.

Anyway: I'd much rather discuss what, if any, influence this will have on addressing criticisms of the American jsutice system.
 
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I'd like to think using one's considerable wealth and political influence to address inequities in the justice system in order to help disadvantaged people ranks a little higher than "was nice to his dog".

And Hitler? Really?
 
Donal said:
I'd like to think using one's considerable wealth and political influence to address inequities in the justice system in order to help disadvantaged people ranks a little higher than "was nice to his dog".

And Hitler? Really?
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He really had to stretch to Godwin a thread about progressive American justice. I give him 1/2 point.
 
Koch sees money to be made in legalized street drugs? 'Cause druggies have to be the huge majority of non violent offenders.
 
But he's looking to reduce sentencing. Hell, if he is the hardcore Libertarian some claim he is, he'd be looking to legalize drugs.
 
Money spent keeping poor people in prison is money that could be given to rich people in the form of tax cuts.
 
But the money spent keeping the poor people in prison is, in many states, going to private companies (ie rich people). Seriously, private prisons is a massive industry that owns several prominent politicians.
 
Not all rich people make money the same way. Some make money polluting the world with fossil fuels, some make money by warehousing poor people in prisons. I doubt the the Kochs have much invested in private prisions if Charles is talking about prison sentencing reform.
 
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