Chaos Magic

[Mister Earl]

Is this another one of those "I'm going to make a claim. Then I will feign outrage when you ask for evidence, and instead of discussing the topic at hand, I will instead do everything I can to insult everyone within range for anything." threads?

 

[AkuManiMani]

Aku, why do you keep this up? Sharing anecdotes is fine, but it's pretty obvious that your goal here is to troll and ridicule others. It's not strictly against forum rules (although several of your more insulting posts are), but it's something I really don't like seeing in the forum. There are many intelligent people here, and there is ample opportunity for intelligent discussion. If you want to discuss your experiences or your views on the paranormal civilly, it can be done (although your claims will be challenged). So why do you insist on just annoying people for the sake of annoying?

"I'm just giving enough rope for certain presumptuous ass-hats to hang themselves with. Those who are actually looking to have a real discussion with me will find it. Those out to "stomp trolls" and prop up their bruised egos will get the run around they're looking for."

I'm perfectly willing to have a sensible discussion, and a handful of responders here have actually bothered to engage me in such productive discussions [hat tip to Sceptic Tank, I Am The Scum, AkuLeLe, and Pure Argent -- apologies to any others I may have forgotten ]. Certain individuals that have given me reason to suspect that they're simply out for ego gratification will find the ******** they're looking for. So, in point of correction, I'm not just annoying for the sake of annoying. There's a method to my apparent madness.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Is this another one of those "I'm going to make a claim. Then I will feign outrage when you ask for evidence, and instead of discussing the topic at hand, I will instead do everything I can to insult everyone within range for anything." threads?

The current trend seems to be more like "I'll make a claim, then smugly insult everyone who questions it, and once this has gone on long enough, I will reveal that this was all a big social experiment, and you all failed". There is some interesting discussion scattered in between the trolling and the people banging their heads against a wall, though.

 

[carlitos]

I suppose that demanding proof of a negative isn't trolling per se, but yeah, the drama queen stuff and arrogant condescention are hallmarks of it.

I mean, even if it was a social experiment, what's the point of defending the story so adamantly, and even giving one of the protagonists person-hood by calling a hallucination (fake or real) "she?"

 

[Mirrorglass]

"I'm just giving enough rope for certain presumptuous ass-hats to hang themselves with. Those who are actually looking to have a real discussion with me will find it. Those out to "stomp trolls" and prop up their bruised egos will get the run around they're looking for."

I'm perfectly willing to have a sensible discussion, and a handful of responders here have actually bothered to engage me in such productive discussions [hat tip to Sceptic Tank, I Am The Scum, AkuLeLe, and Pure Argent -- apologies to any other's I may have forgotten]. Certain individuals that have given me reason to suspect that they're simply out for ego gratification will find the ******** they're looking for. So, in point of correction, I'm not just annoying for the sake of annoying. There's a method to my apparent madness.

Yes, I see that. And it confuses me that you think people will still respect you despite it.

This is a public forum. We all see your discussion with all participants. The fact that you occasionally give a polite answer does not hide the fact that you are childishly poking others for reactions and showering them with insults.

It's like I was in a bar, talking to a guy who was generally pretty polite towards me. Only he spends most of his time flicking boogers at the next table, while the people in it shout at him, asking him to stop and talk like adults. It doesn't help that he explains he's only doing it because the people in that table suck - I'm not about to have an intelligent discussion with the guy flicking boogers.

 

[AkuManiMani]

The current trend seems to be more like "I'll make a claim, then smugly insult everyone who questions it, and once this has gone on long enough, I will reveal that this was all a big social experiment, and you all failed". There is some interesting discussion scattered in between the trolling and the people banging their heads against a wall, though.

Lets cal lit "Edutainment"!

 

[Mirrorglass]

I suppose that demanding proof of a negative isn't trolling per se, but yeah, the drama queen stuff and arrogant condescention are hallmarks of it.

I mean, even if it was a social experiment, what's the point of defending the story so adamantly, and even giving one of the protagonists person-hood by calling a hallucination (fake or real) "she?"

My impression is that Aku may well honestly believe in this entity that spoke to him. I could be wrong, but he seems fairly sincere in that respect. I think he considers people questioning his experience to be attacking him personally, and is now taking his revenge by acting like this whole discussion is just one big experiment proving what idiots the skeptics are. It's a fairly common passive-aggressive tactic, and one I particularly dislike. I vastly prefer ordinary insults; at least those are proper communication. Wasting everyone's time to earn imaginary debate points is just petty.

 

[AkuManiMani]

Yes, I see that. And it confuses me that you think people will still respect you despite it.

This is a public forum. We all see your discussion with all participants. The fact that you occasionally give a polite answer does not hide the fact that you are childishly poking others for reactions and showering them with insults.

It's like I was in a bar, talking to a guy who was generally pretty polite towards me. Only he spends most of his time flicking boogers at the next table, while the people in it shout at him, asking him to stop and talk like adults. It doesn't help that he explains he's only doing it because the people in that table suck - I'm not about to have an intelligent discussion with the guy flicking boogers.

Thats fine and totally your prerogative. Just to be clear, I'm not going out of my way to pick fights with anyone not already looking for one; if they come at me with aggressive intentions its perfectly within my right to atleast derive some entertainment out of it. I'd also like to add that a person cannot be trolled without their willing participation.

 

[carlitos]

Juxtaposed for comedic effect

Now, now, Carlitos... Atleast -try- to keep your projections out of this

I'm perfectly willing to have a sensible discussion, and a handful of responders here have actually bothered to engage me in such productive discussions [hat tip to Sceptic Tank, I Am The Scum, AkuLeLe, and Pure Argent -- apologies to any others I may have forgotten ]. Certain individuals that have given me reason to suspect that they're simply out for ego gratification will find the ******** they're looking for. So, in point of correction, I'm not just annoying for the sake of annoying. There's a method to my apparent madness.

Maybe people named "Aku" are more sensible and thus worth productive discussions.

Mirrorglass nailed it with the booger-flinging analogy.

 

[Hokulele]

Maybe people named "Aku" are more sensible and thus worth productive discussions.

Eh, I have been called worse things by better people...

 

[AkuManiMani]

Maybe people named "Aku" are more sensible and thus worth productive discussions.

Mirrorglass nailed it with the booger-flinging analogy.

Why do you assume that I was trying to mock her?

 

[carlitos]

whoosh

 

[AkuManiMani]

</shrug>

 

[AkuManiMani]

My impression is that Aku may well honestly believe in this entity that spoke to him. I could be wrong, but he seems fairly sincere in that respect. I think he considers people questioning his experience to be attacking him personally, and is now taking his revenge by acting like this whole discussion is just one big experiment proving what idiots the skeptics are. It's a fairly common passive-aggressive tactic, and one I particularly dislike. I vastly prefer ordinary insults; at least those are proper communication. Wasting everyone's time to earn imaginary debate points is just petty.

There are plenty of people here who question my experiences and I've no problem with them whatsoever. Like I already said, it isn't about whether or not someone agrees with me but in how they approach me for discussion. If you think its petty for me to treat petty people in like manner, thats fine, but don't try to pigeonhole me into the role of some mean fellow who just pokes fun at people for merely disagreeing.

[ETA: I'd very much prefer to sling direct insults but forum guidelines restrict all such behavior to the "passvie-agressive" snide remark variety. If it were up to me I'd much rather punch a mug in the mug and get it over with.]

 

[Mirrorglass]

There are plenty of people here who question my experiences and I've no problem with them whatsoever. Like I already said, it isn't about whether or not someone agrees with me but in how they approach me for discussion. If you think its petty for me to treat petty people in like manner, thats fine, but don't try to pigeonhole me into the role of some mean fellow who just pokes fun at people for merely disagreeing.

[ETA: I'd very much prefer to sling direct insults but forum guidelines restrict all such behavior to the "passvie-agressive" snide remark variety. If it were up to me I'd much rather punch a mug in the mug and get it over with.]

Oh, I don't think you're particularly mean; you're just a guy who likes to pick a fight, and thus sees potential fights everywhere. You're a bit too sensitive to other people's tones, and when you decide somebody is being rude, you immediately respond with such aggression that if they weren't rude before, they're certainly not going to be nice now.

But what really annoys me is that you've wasted ten pages on your personal attacks, skirting around the rules as you are. There's just no excuse for such behaviour, no matter how slighted you felt by a poster.

I don't particularly appreciate Limbo's style of vocally ignoring posters for perceived insults, but it's preferable to making a whole thread a place for you to take your vengeance. If a poster annoys you so much, put them on ignore. That way we'll all be spared the annoyance.

 

[Robin]

One of the few strait-forward answers she even bothered to give me was ---

"And, yes. This is real, all of this is real... "

I assume she had her own reasons for not revealing certain information. At some point I quit worrying about it and just rolled with the weirdness of the situation.

You don't seem to be the sort of person just to let things go.

If I had an experience like that I am sure there would have been an initial shock, but if I thought there was even a chance I was talking to a supernatural being I would be dogged in my questioning.

It would be somewhat frustrating to have one chance to talk to a spirit and she turns out to be a flake.

 

[Nonpareil]

I wasn't aware that I was required to prove anything to you. Seems to me like you're the one with somethin' to prove, buddy

You aren't required to prove anything to anyone.

However, what you're doing right now isn't exactly productive. You have come forward, on a forum dedicated to skepticism and critical thinking, with an anecdote about a supposedly paranormal experience (despite the fact that your personal definition of "paranormal" excludes your experience, it fits the colloquial definition, and so I'm using it here for lack of a better word), and you are telling others that they shouldn't be asking you what evidence you have to support your anecdote.

Why? Because we don't know whether or not you are telling the truth? No, we don't, but we're giving you the benefit of the doubt. Because we can never know if any explanation we may come up with is correct? So? We all know that. That the discussion is limited to speculation rather than an actual conclusion doesn't change the fact that we can have a discussion. Instead, you lash out at anyone who asks you what evidence you have to support your story.

True, you and I - and several other posters - were able to have entirely civil discussions. I enjoyed that. But that discussion did not have any direct bearing on your experience.

If you don't want people to ask you what evidence you have to support your claims about your experience, why did you bring it up in a place that you knew is dedicated to analyzing this type of thing? You can keep saying that you're here to "[give] enough rope for certain presumptuous ass-hats to hang themselves with," but you're the one who brought up your experience, and you're the one who refuses to actually answer any inquiries about it. Why? You knew what this forum is for. Posting a story here and insulting people who act in a fashion entirely in line with this purpose isn't "looking for a serious conversation".

 

[Zanders]

Don't just take our word for it. If anyone is curious about actual facts on the fallibility of memory here are some good links to read.

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/2193/study-shows-memory-surprisingly-unreliable

http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/eyewitnessmemory.html

 

[carlitos]

You aren't required to prove anything to anyone.

However, what you're doing right now isn't exactly productive.

Oh, I know! Maybe you could present ME with "evidence" that none of what I experienced is true, reliable, or sound? Whadaya think? Sound like fun?

This demonstrated a bit of the problem, IMHO. There are tons of articles in this thread that demonstrate that memory is fallible, for instance. A cursory look at a google search would provide evidence for auditory hallucinations, seizures with the spark-on-the-head thing, confabulation, etc. Instead, AkuManiMani asks for proof of a negative. Trolling, trolling trolling...

 

[Zanders]

I think that the discussion in this thread should just end and everyone should move on.

If you don't want to prove anything, then you should just leave it at that and go do something else. Nobody here is going to have a sudden change of mind because of any stories, and you already said that they didn't have to beleive you. Nobody here is going to convince you that anything you said didn't happen either. This isn't constructive and it has just turned in to insults.