Chaos Magic

[Resume]

Thats fine. Atleast now I know you've no honest intentions in this discussion. Pardon me for giving you the benefit of the doubt.

You know no such thing.

 

[tsig]

Can anyone remember the case of a fairly famous person taking some sort of drug and recording what they considered to be a deeply profound thought only to find it was nonsense upon sober reading?

As I remember it there was a mention of the colour blue in what he wrote down.

Best I can do:

http://coldspur.com/HogamousHigamous(V2).htm

 

[sadhatter]

What mode of thinking is that?

Perfect example right here.

He posts that way in order to drag out what should be a one post conversation:

" Change your mode of posting to fit in better with the mode of thinking here. "

" Okay " or " No"

To what is going to turn into this.

" Change your mode of posting to fit better with the mode of thinking here. "

" What mode of thinking is that?"

" The kind you view around here"

" I do not view any kind of thinking around here "

" lol, but you know what i mean."

" But that is not what i mean"

" your ideas would get better reception if you tried it though."

" My ideas are my own, and reception is for televisions not ideas"

( and this keeps going until someone finally stops feeding him.)

It is transparent and eye roll inducing at best.

 

[sadhatter]

What hes saying is that if you don't like his language and are unwilling to meet him where he is then you should politely excuse yourself from the discussion HE started instead of jeering and mocking. I think it is a reasonable request.

And i think it is a troll trying to get " cheap heat" , my evidence though is much more compelling should you actually look over his post history.

 

[tsig]

Um, spontaneous vision?

This is a bad sign Limbo, and why I blame your teachers.

You should not, and I repeat not be having any sort of visions or events outside of the ritual space and boundaries. This is Shamanism 100, not even 105 or higher in the course work.

You are playing with electricity without even following the guidelines to preserve the integrity of your selfhood. This is bad very bad, humans in the ritual world posses the ultimate jewel and you are allowing it to be trashed by lack of control. This path leads to delusion, possession and fascination. One should not just allow the forces and spirits to come along randomly, the human in the spiritual sense has the ultimate jewel and you are not caring for it.

Find better teachers.

QFL

 

[AkuManiMani]

And i think it is a troll trying to get " cheap heat" , my evidence though is much more compelling should you actually look over his post history.

If thats the case lets see if he bucks the trend in this thread

 

[sadhatter]

Neveh gonna' 'appen.

Oh i know, but i want to avoid someone making the generic " your just shut down to him" comment.

Should the guy start putting content and a minimal format in his post, i will treat him legitimately. But if he keeps obviously trolling, i am going to keep obviously calling him out.

 

[nescafe]

Can anyone remember the case of a fairly famous person taking some sort of drug and recording what they considered to be a deeply profound thought only to find it was nonsense upon sober reading?

As I remember it there was a mention of the colour blue in what he wrote down.

Overall, there was a scent of fried onions.

 

[sadhatter]

If thats the case lets see if he bucks the trend in this thread

Trollin' isn't a disease or a mistake, it is purposeful. While i will not only defaecate myself out of surprise , but respond to him should what he says show any sign at all of not being designed to screw with people, i am not holding my breath.

 

[Resume]

Oh i know, but i want to avoid someone making the generic " your just shut down to him" comment.

Should the guy start putting content and a minimal format in his post, i will treat him legitimately. But if he keeps obviously trolling, i am going to keep obviously calling him out.

I think he actually believes he's offering content.

 

[tsig]

You mean your "PSI" doesn't inform you of such things. Sucky PSI then.

 

[tsig]

What makes it a malady that needs curing? Do you even know what hes talking about?

Yes. he's saying he has special knowledge that the rest of us don't have therefore he is superior to us.

Gnosis (from one of the Greek words for knowledge, γνῶσις) is the spiritual knowledge of a saint[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosis

 

[AkuManiMani]

Don't care what you think.

ETA Sorry, that was a bit short. I understand what you're trying to say, but feel I may participate in this thread regardless, and don't need your permission.

Sorry, didn't catch the ETA.

If you think hes just trolling then your jeering posts are just feeding it anyway.

 

[Resume]

Sorry, didn't catch the ETA.

If you think hes just trolling then your jeering posts are just feeding it anyway.

I think I'm on ignore at any rate. And I don't jeer, I satirize. That's my story anyway.

 

[AkuManiMani]

What makes it a malady that needs curing? Do you even know what hes talking about?

Yes. he's saying he has special knowledge that the rest of us don't have therefore he is superior to us.

Gnosis (from one of the Greek words for knowledge, γνῶσις) is the spiritual knowledge of a saint[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosis

Limbo, iono if this is the kind of impression you wanna be giving here -- especially when you're discussing the mystical on a skeptic forum. You really should consider using strait forward language to qualify your purpose first instead of just slapping the audience upside the head with esoteric terms

 

[theprestige]

Some of the conversations I've seen recently are boiling down to the point where a skeptic might realize that its his or her own personal responsibility to, as Sam Harris called it, "build your own telescope". That is to say, evaluate mystical claims by becoming a mystic yourself. Of course Sam Harris would use other terms that are sanitized for 'rational folk', such as contemplative. But me, I am not so kind.

So lets say you are a card-carrying skeptic and you want to do a little mystical investigation of your own, that is to say build your own telescope and see what you can see. Where do you start? Well, you could do as Sam seems to be doing and go the meditation route. But most of us Westerners have a hard time with meditation, and most who try it give it up before achieving mystical altered states of consciousness.

So what other choice does that leave for the intrepid skeptic? Whatever contemplative tradition an intepid skeptic chooses must include a method of gaining altered states of consciousness. That is a universal common denominator in mystical traditions. That is to say, its part of every telescope. Sam Harris has chosen meditation to build his telescope with. But for those of us without the temperament or the time to devote to learning and practicing meditation, there is quicker choice. Chaos magic.

The idea behind Chaos magic is simple. Everything is permitted, everything is true. A chaos magician uses the power of paradigm shifting, in conjunction with altered states of consciousness, in order to elicit psychic functioning for a purpose. That, in essence, is magic.

So an intrepid skeptic who wants to test chaoes magic would start with a little reading about the principles of Chaos magic. Then, he or she selects a method of achieving gnosis. Gnosis is the Chaos magic term for altered state of consciousness. There are several methods to choose from, and its a very personal choice. Self-hypnosis, sexual orgasm, frenzied dancing, entheogens, ect.

Then he or she learns to contruct a sigil. A sigil is a personal symbol of intent, which the psychic energy of your gnosis is directed toward. Intent is a crucial ingredient. For instance, our intrepid skeptic has the intent to experience psychic ability. So he or she first constructs a sigil that symbolizes that intent, then uses a method to achieve a temporary state of gnosis, and waits.

It might take a while to get the hang acheiving gnosis but eventually the unconscious mind of the skeptic, in accordance with the intent of the sigil, would begin to provide the conscious mind with psychic experiences. Then what our intrepid skeptic has done in essence is cast a spell. Paradigm manipulation, sigils, and gnosis. Oh my!

For sheer usefulness and reproducibility, give me Law Magic every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Talk about building telescopes? Let me know when any chaos magician, anywhere, anytime, builds anything even as remotely useful or interesting as Galileo's simple instrument--let alone comes up with a "spell" or "ritual" for building such a thing, that is teachable, repeatable, and reliable.

I don't know what chaotes do, but I don't see much magic in it. At least, not any kind of broadly applicable, useful magic.

Moveable type? Not a product of chaos magic.

Actual telescopes? Not a product of chaos magic.

Hygenic dentistry? Not a product of chaos magic.

The Apollo Project? Not even remotely a product of chaos magic. Chaos magicians may imagine they went to the moon, but the "law magicians" at NASA actually did it for real. And they have a proven recipe, that they could use again and again. To me, it's real, repeatable results that signify real magic.

Combine all the useful things done by all the chaos magicians ever, and I'll wager any single accomplishment of the Rationalists has been more useful to more people.

 

[Limbo]

Limbo, iono if this is the kind of impression you wanna be giving here -- especially when you're discussing the mystical on a skeptic forum. You really should consider using strait forward language to qualify your purpose first instead of just slapping the audience upside the head with esoteric terms

I thought I did qualify it when I said it was the Chaos Magic term for altered state of consciousness.

 

[Zanders]

*sigh* Limbo, you seem to keep ignoring this thread that shows many people here have tried what you said in your opening post. Why not bring this up in that thread? Do you not want to talk to the people who have actually tried already?

Also, Dancing David has made some very good posts. I think that you should at least unblock him temporarily to read them. They seem like something that you might would find interesting and should take in to considerations, they are not blatant attacks or insults. But it is up to you.

 

[AkuManiMani]

I thought I did qualify it when I said it was the Chaos Magic term for altered state of consciousness.

You're dealin' with a really rough crowd here. You're gonna have to be prepared to clarify and re-clarify before you get to the point where some people start getting into the groove of that you're trying to convey. The ones who really want to understand and the ones who just wanna 'woo'-bash will make themselves apparent eventually :-/

 

[Limbo]

You're dealin' with a really rough crowd here. You're gonna have to be prepared to clarify and re-clarify before you get to the point where some people start getting into the groove of that you're trying to convey. The ones who really want to understand and the ones who just wanna 'woo'-bash will make themselves apparent eventually :-/

Or, I could just ignore the people who need me to clarify and re-clarify, so that I can focus on the people that I think might be able to grok what i have to say in the only way I know how to say it. I can't possibly respond to every poster, every post. I need a criteria to whittle it down.