Hey, I resemble that remark.
Actually you make a good point.
I'll have to think about that.
(On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the JREF is already committed)
Actually you make a good point.
I'll have to think about that.
(On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the JREF is already committed)
Klaymore
Critical Thinker
Thanks for taking that comment in the spirit in which it was intended!
Yeah, it looks like they've made their minds up (and like the decision has been a long time in the making).
Maybe after a hiatus from the hardcore nuts they'll find some kind of happy medium...
chillzero
Penultimate Amazing
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- Dec 11, 2002
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Klaymore
Critical Thinker
Yeah, that one had kind of a long fuse on it! In fact I didn't even get it for awhile...
But the challenge certainly isn't democratic in nature. Not at all. It is a PR tool for Randi and the JREF. It is a tool for them to say "There are no paranormal abilities, all those people taking money from you are frauds. You think they're not? Prove it." That is all. It exists soley so that Randi can expose cheats and frauds. After over 40 years of this it is quite obvious that the general public really don't care about the few nutjobs who actually have applied, so there is very little point in carrying on in the same way. The idea of targeting well known frauds, rather than expecting them to come to Randi, is that these people are recognised. If Sylvia Browne is publically discredited she will no longer be able to fleece people for $200 per minute. Even better, if the "best" publically known psychics are prvoen to be frauds, the public will (hopefully) question the abilities of the may small psychics who aren't as well known. The important part of the JREF is the "E". Debating with nuts doesn't help that, but exposing public frauds hopefully will.
Klaymore
Critical Thinker
For sure! But you can go after Edwards/Geller/Browne etc. and still keep the challenge open to anyone by NOT debating them, just accepting those applications which conform to the rules, and rejecting those which do not.
feldesq
Student
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When the JREF has the resources to accept all applicants, it may prove useful to do so. Until that time, the more focused, new Challenge makes good sense. Reality trumps idealism in this regard.....
He is suggesting they deal only with those who can actually fill out the application form.
This would eliminate almost all of them right at the start.
feldesq
Student
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He is suggesting they deal only with those who can actually fill out the application form.
This would eliminate almost all of them right at the start.
Actually, this has proven to be the case over the years! Very few of the applicants either understand the rules of the Challenge or are able to complete the application process as prescribed! There is probably a strong correlation between lacking the intellectual ability to complete the application process and believing in woo woo claims....
CynicalSkeptic
Master Poster
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So, did you hear the one about the dwarf fortune teller who was arrested, then later escaped?
The newspaper headline is 'Small Medium at Large'
CynicalSkeptic
Master Poster
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I'd go a step further and say there is probably a strong correlation between mental illness and believing woo woo claims about oneself.
He is suggesting they deal only with those who can actually fill out the application form.
This would eliminate almost all of them right at the start.
But they would still generate a lot of mail that all needs to be read. If the JREF is open for any to apply then they will always have to at least read all applications, even if they then reject them, which apparently takes up more resources than they are willing to put in to it. If most people aren't even allowed to apply, and if the information saying how to is not so easily available, then they can happily bin anything that claims to be an application without even having to read it, as well as there (hopefully) being a lot less of them.
How many apply in an average week? Also, they could stop reading at the first eror - which, in most cases would take all of one second to spot.
This has been suggested before (by myself and others) in this thread and to TPTB. The decision has been made, however, to go in a different direction (ie. the "media and academic" requirement). I am optimistic that the changes will be beneficial overall, but I agree that there is probably a way that the Challenge could be left open to all comers. One way to accomplish this is if the JREF were more willing to reject applications outright that do not follow the application guidelines (satisfying basic requirements of legibility, stating a claim, etc...).
The MDC is still open if you pass any of the other challenges. This means the MDC is still open to all, you just have to pass a lesser challenge first, which isn't that bad. If you can win one, you can win them all.