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Changes To The Challenge

A brief history of the Challenge....

You all remember when Randi used the Challenge to confront Sylvia Browne on Larry King, and this confrontation was repeated again on Larry King, and Sylvia “agreed” again to "take the Challenge." This actually was a two-edged sword. Randi (primarily) and the JREF (minimally) gained some significant attention, and Sylvia Browne produced some “talking points” for her followers and appeared to be more credible (after all, she was agreeing to be “tested” by the world’s foremost skeptic). The fact that she ultimately obfuscated and lied is a separate issue (an issue to be minimized but not addressed here).

The “use” of the Challenge – as suggested by the Randi/Browne exchange on CNN – was far more effective than it merely being a magnet for small-time woo woos.

That said, the Challenge can be far more effective if it is broadened along the lines the JREF is contemplating. This broadening is neither a “downsizing” nor a retreat. Far from it! It is an advance in a number of important respects.

A little history is worth reciting here: Randi used to carry around a check in his wallet (I think he started with $1,000 and then raised it to $10,000, possibly more through the years), and he would brandish the check as a means of saying to the flim flammers and charlatans that they should “put up or shut up” (as Randi was willing to do with his own money)! It was intended to be a public relations tool and an educational tool. This was years before the JREF even came into existence (remember the JREF is just celebrating its 10th anniversary year).

A generous JREF supporter donated the $1 million to the JREF as the basis of the fund which stands behind the Challenge.

The primary mechanism attracting applicants has become the internet. As you know, the internet attracts its own brand of woo woos and fruitcakes (or do I repeat myself?), and otherwise precious time was being expended on simply weeding out the real flakes from the surreal flakes. Few applicants even came close to meeting the objective and extremely unbiased and clear protocols which formed the basis for testing. Often the claimants could not even legibly or coherently express just what they were attempting to claim!

Randi would amuse us all on The Swift by reciting some of these applicant details.

But what were we accomplishing as far as the Big Picture is concerned?

In principle it would be nice if every oddball claimant could be evaluated, analyzed, dissected (vivisected perhaps?), and exposed for what he or she actually is – mentally challenged, emotionally disturbed, a flim flam artist, just very naive and unsophisticated, or just one of the millions of folks who want to believe so much in such spernatural powers that they have fooled themselves into believing they manifest such powers.

The problems with this approach are threefold: first, it would take a huge operation, involving an expenditure of resources presently beyond the reach of the JREF (even in combination with many or most of the other skeptics organizations). Second, we would fail to convince many, if any, of the claimants – let alone the rest of the public – that these claims are hokum for many reasons we should by now be familiar with. Third – and most importantly – unless we can and do obtain widespread publicity for our test results, we lose the "punch." And it this "punch" we want to achieve,

So, what we are doing by retooling the Challenge is to get it back on track – back to where Randi used to brandish that $1,000+ check in the faces of the big guys like Sylvia Browne, back to having a strong "punch." Someone has so eloquently said it before: anyone who could demonstrate real supernatural powers wouldn’t waste his time trying to get $1 million from the JREF. He would probably be able to rule the world in short order. At the very least, he would be able run up billions of dollars (if that is all he wanted to achieve – a rather banal achievement at that). Therefore, the thrust of the Challenge must be as a marketing tool – another instrument in the arsenal of effective propaganda against the “dark side” of man’s nature. The JREF must have that "punch" (a good wallop!).
 
But what were we accomplishing as far as the Big Picture is concerned?
In the big picture belongs what you do not see: all those times normal thinking people have heard about the Challenge and also heard of all the claimants that failed or chickened out. When a believer once told me that "it is well known that the sign of the cross heals the people that are close to it", I could respond with an explanation of how she could become a millionaire simply by proving what was in any case a "well known fact". This particular belief seems to have faded away in this case.

When the Challenge is only open for the big time tricksters, it will never result in a test, the million dollars is not near enough to tempt these personalities, and I also fear that it will result in a more US-focused challenge. In effect, the challenge is going from a universal skeptic tool back to what it was originally: Randi's tool!

It will be interesting to see what changes are being made, because Randi has never before been prevented from going after the media personalities. If randi only wanted to concentrate on this aspect, he could simply close it for the public without real alterations to the Challenge. The announced changes could mean that he is reforging the Challenge to make it more potent against his prime target, and that is something I will really look forward to!
 
In the big picture belongs what you do not see: all those times normal thinking people have heard about the Challenge and also heard of all the claimants that failed or chickened out. When a believer once told me that "it is well known that the sign of the cross heals the people that are close to it", I could respond with an explanation of how she could become a millionaire simply by proving what was in any case a "well known fact". This particular belief seems to have faded away in this case.
I think this is a corrollary to an issue of which I have been aware for some time now. Among many woo-woos who truly believe they have powers (like Angela Patel, as opposed to money-grabbers like Sylvia Browne), their reasoning is as follows:
It goes without saying that there are many genuine psychics in the world, any of whom could win the $1 million at any time of their choosing. That no one has one the money if proof that Randi is somehow cheating.
Suggesting that maybe psychic powers aren't real is immediately dismissed because of "things that have happened to me in the past". (Fascinating how woo-woo rationalisations are so alike; Angela said that, but I'd heard it before from just such a self-proclaimed psychic, although he lacked the bottle to apply to JREF for testing, despite my prompting.) These people are incapable of understanding the nature of selection bias; they are utterly convinced that, "Oh, no, I would never commit that error. I am such an objective observer."
Personally, I have always found the challenge a brilliant tool for browbeating these self-obsessed idiots, but if you take it away...
 
Remember that there are numerous skeptical organisations that offer their own challenges. Sure, none of them are $1,000,000 but challenges are out there, available to the every day applicants. Jeff's statement seemed to indicate that passing one of those challenges offered by the many regional skeptical societies would open the JREF challenge to an applicant. Perhaps the JREF will maintain an up to date, comprehensive list of all those lesser known challenges available to those who wish to take them. Any person who desires to attempt the JREF challenge could be referred to such a list, instructed to contact whichever skeptical organisation was closest to them, and promised that, were they to successfully pass one of those challenges, an application to the JREF $1,000,000 challenge would be made available to them.
 
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I think this is a corrollary to an issue of which I have been aware for some time now. Among many woo-woos who truly believe they have powers (like Angela Patel, as opposed to money-grabbers like Sylvia Browne), their reasoning is as follows:
It goes without saying that there are many genuine psychics in the world, any of whom could win the $1 million at any time of their choosing. That no one has one the money if proof that Randi is somehow cheating.
Suggesting that maybe psychic powers aren't real is immediately dismissed because of "things that have happened to me in the past". (Fascinating how woo-woo rationalisations are so alike; Angela said that, but I'd heard it before from just such a self-proclaimed psychic, although he lacked the bottle to apply to JREF for testing, despite my prompting.) These people are incapable of understanding the nature of selection bias; they are utterly convinced that, "Oh, no, I would never commit that error. I am such an objective observer."
Personally, I have always found the challenge a brilliant tool for browbeating these self-obsessed idiots, but if you take it away...

...you'll have one less tool with which to browbeat idiots?

Please understand the purpose of the Challenge is not to provide skeptics a way to win arguments with idiots. It is a publicity device for James Randi and the JREF. If it's not doing that job well then the Challenge is a failure.
 
You can't do that. You have to go with what people actually claim they can do.

If you want to reduce the wiggle room, this is definitely the wrong way to do it. It has to something that is mutually agreed upon.

Don't give them any excuse for failing to apply.
I agree with Reager response to this, so I hope I am not too repetitive.

If you are just going after the celebrities in the paranormal world, like Sylvia, it should not be that hard to do a first draft of a protocol based on the public claims she has already made. Make a protocol designed to test whether she can actually talk to the dead. Then you say to her, "You say you can talk to the dead. Let's test that. You do X, Y, and Z and I'll give you a million dollars. If you can't do X, Y, and Z, tell me what you can do and we'll change the test."

The advantage is that if she then refuses the challenge, the immediate follow up is "why?", even if you are Larry King or Montel. It forces her to be concrete about an objection, as there has been a concrete proposal. As it is now, she accepts the challenge without any protocol at all, then wiggles out by saying no protocol with Randi would be fair. Eliminate this dodge by proposing a fair protocol up front.

Also, I think you would have to eliminate the pre-test step and go right to the final challenge to get the most publicity bang for your buck.
 
I believe that Randi has previously waived the pre-test requirements for at least a couple high profile frauds, in the past.
 
Please understand the purpose of the Challenge is not to provide skeptics a way to win arguments with idiots. It is a publicity device for James Randi and the JREF. If it's not doing that job well then the Challenge is a failure.
Well, now it is a publicity device for James Randi, but it used to be more.

And it was not just useful to win arguments with idiots, but even more so with intelligent people who could comprehend the extent of the woo failure to take the Challenge.
 
... were they to successfully pass one of those challenges, an application to the JREF $1,000,000 challenge would be made available to them.
I distinctly recall that James Randi has on a number of occasions stated that if an applicant won one of those smaller challenges, he would regard it as an automatic win of the JREF million also! This was with respect to a Chinese challenge, and, I think an Australian challenge.

Perhaps he will withdraw this offer and convert any smaller wins to automatically apporved application for the JREF Challenge, as you said?
 
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So there it is. I know this decision will be unpopular with some, and I'm sorry about that, but this move will empower the JREF to do more with the challenge than ever before.


I think this is a splendid initiative. While pandering to the nutters gave us all a few (well, a great many) laughs, in the end it served little purpose outside of the skeptic community.

Going after high-profile shams like Sylvia, Benny, James VP et al may well prove a more rewarding endeavor.

M.
 
Well, now it is a publicity device for James Randi, but it used to be more.

I agree that the Challenge in its current format is a nice tool for us individual skeptics in our daily battles with the un-skeptical horde. However, as it is Randi and the JREF who bear the cost of administering the Challenge, its usefulness to the Foundation should take precedence over its usefulness to us as individuals.

As with any organization, the JREF has limited resources and must determine how best to expend those resources for maximum benefit. They have decided that the resources devoted to the Challenge in its current format are too great, and the Foundation would expend fewer resources and derive greater benefit by altering the Challenge format. Many of us agree with this decision.

And it was not just useful to win arguments with idiots, but even more so with intelligent people who could comprehend the extent of the woo failure to take the Challenge.

You'll still be able to point to woo woo failure to take the Challenge, you just won't be able to point to any random woo woo. You'll be pointing to a woo woo that people have actually heard of.
 
I distinctly recall that James Randi has on a number of occasions stated that if an applicant won one of those smaller challenges, he would regard it as an automatic win of the JREF million also! This was with respect to a Chinese challenge, and, I think an Australian challenge.

Perhaps he will withdraw this offer and convert any smaller wins to automatically apporved application for the JREF Challenge, as you said?

I was judging by the following statement by Jeff:
give us a reason to invite you to the challenge. Win one of the many other prizes offered by groups around the world.

That seems to indicate that an everyday potential applicant will not be entirely cut off, but that to rate the big prize one must first prove themselves in another skeptical arena. I think this is a fine idea, as long as it is explicitly stated somewhere. As I mentioned above, maybe the challenge application page could be adapted to provide a link to a list of regional skeptical organisations that offer their own prizes, perhaps with the stipulation that passing that lesser challenge would qualify as passing the JREF preliminary test.
 
You'll still be able to point to woo woo failure to take the Challenge, you just won't be able to point to any random woo woo. You'll be pointing to a woo woo that people have actually heard of.
You may be surprised, but people like Sylvia Browne are only world-famous in the U.S.. They are completely unknown in many European countries. I fear that this new challenge will not reach the media outside the U.S. (and possibly other anglophone countries)
 
You may be surprised, but people like Sylvia Browne are only world-famous in the U.S.. They are completely unknown in many European countries. I fear that this new challenge will not reach the media outside the U.S. (and possibly other anglophone countries)

Of course, the specifics have yet to be released, but I see no reason why the new Challenge must be limited to "big shots" operating in the US. Why couldn't the JREF challenge anyone, anywhere in the world?
 
If this results in more of the type of challenge we saw in the BBC programme testing homeopathy I think it will be of great benefit. Think how many people will have watched that compared to how people will have read about "Burt - I can summon rain clouds" in the Challenge applications here.
 
Of course, the specifics have yet to be released, but I see no reason why the new Challenge must be limited to "big shots" operating in the US. Why couldn't the JREF challenge anyone, anywhere in the world?
Because the Challenge is a device for James Randi to get media attention, and he cannot be everywhere at once?
 

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