Challenge to William Rodriguez

Hyperviolet said:
I have no idea. It is not me doing the travelling. I know people do have tight schedules, families and sometimes people just don't want to go the distance. I have no clue as to what each persons individual reason is. In fact, travel is certainly not the problem in Mr Rodriguezs case.

I am growing weary hearing about how everyone is scared to face Mr Wieck on his show 'Hardfire.' Mr Rodriguez also must be scared, as he is apparantly looking for an escape route. What is he escaping exactly?
Either way - the suggestion that he is somehow a 'fraud' is quite nasty.
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And what of your suggestions?

He agrees to appear on the show, and then 20 minutes later reneges on that. I think you'll agree that whether it's nasty or not- it has nothing to do with whether it's true or not. Rodriguez was looking for an out. That allows us to question the integrity of his claims. He didn't reschedule, he didn't give some sort of a viable excuse- he just said that he didn't like the way Ron posted the invitation here- ignoring the fact that Ron always does that.

It's not the first time Rodriguez has displayed this kind of behavior. And I don't think that the characterizations of his actions have been incorrect.
 
Totovader said:
And what of your suggestions?

He agrees to appear on the show, and then 20 minutes later reneges on that. I think you'll agree that whether it's nasty or not- it has nothing to do with whether it's true or not. Rodriguez was looking for an out. That allows us to question the integrity of his claims. He didn't reschedule, he didn't give some sort of a viable excuse- he just said that he didn't like the way Ron posted the invitation here- ignoring the fact that Ron always does that.

It's not the first time Rodriguez has displayed this kind of behavior. And I don't think that the characterizations of his actions have been incorrect.
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He has done this before? Where?
 
Slayhamlet said:
He has done this before? Where?
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In the other challenge to Rodriguez thread. He continues to complain that people are mean, and he doesn't want to explain himself- everyone points out that he's only referring to a specific, tiny portion of the population (if at all) and those members get dealt with via the mods.

His response still didn't come. Instead he posted an "email" from someone that attacked him, claimed it was a JREF member, and then disappeared again.

From where I sit- he spends a lot of energy looking for ways to not have to answer any questions or present his case to a group of individuals who may be skeptical. He's claimed that he would enjoy some kind of a conference or something like that- but I personally see that as another stall tactic: he's probably playing the odds on that one.

Of course- as always- with any criticism of Rodriguez we all need to say how much of a hero he really is. At this point though, I'm not really that interested in what he has to say- especially when he acts in a way which I guess can only be described as "flaky".
 
Totovader said:
In the other challenge to Rodriguez thread. He continues to complain that people are mean, and he doesn't want to explain himself- everyone points out that he's only referring to a specific, tiny portion of the population (if at all) and those members get dealt with via the mods.

His response still didn't come. Instead he posted an "email" from someone that attacked him, claimed it was a JREF member, and then disappeared again.

From where I sit- he spends a lot of energy looking for ways to not have to answer any questions or present his case to a group of individuals who may be skeptical. He's claimed that he would enjoy some kind of a conference or something like that- but I personally see that as another stall tactic: he's probably playing the odds on that one.

Of course- as always- with any criticism of Rodriguez we all need to say how much of a hero he really is. At this point though, I'm not really that interested in what he has to say- especially when he acts in a way which I guess can only be described as "flaky".
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Ah, okay. I didn't know there was another thread. Thanks.

ETA:fixed atrocious grammar
 
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There's really nothing much to his conference, from what I can tell from the youtube videos: his entire conference as far as its pertinence to conspiracy theories goes, seems to rest solely on his testimony of the loud noise he heard (the rest is about his memories of that day, and what happened to him after, which is cool but has nothing to do with proving that there was a conspiracy). The entire "conspiracy" which stems from that one single factoid is just pure baseless speculation.

I don't think that would make much of a show I'm afraid, not even a half hour.
 
Hi M. Rodriguez. :)

M. Rodriguez, although it's very interesting to hear your memories of what happened, what you did and what came after is very interesting (it would make a great book ;)), conspiracy theorists have lashed on to you like a pack of wolves, and now every time your name is pronounced it has become synonymous with "9/11 conspiracy theories", which is sad because your story is much more than that.

You don't seem to me to be a "truther", but on the other hand, from what we see in the videos, none other than Alex Jones is introducing you. That kind of association can only put you in that "conspiracy theorist" camp, I'm afraid.

You must be aware of this? Are you?
 
Totovader said:
In the other challenge to Rodriguez thread. He continues to complain that people are mean, and he doesn't want to explain himself- everyone points out that he's only referring to a specific, tiny portion of the population (if at all) and those members get dealt with via the mods.

His response still didn't come. Instead he posted an "email" from someone that attacked him, claimed it was a JREF member, and then disappeared again.

From where I sit- he spends a lot of energy looking for ways to not have to answer any questions or present his case to a group of individuals who may be skeptical. He's claimed that he would enjoy some kind of a conference or something like that- but I personally see that as another stall tactic: he's probably playing the odds on that one.

Of course- as always- with any criticism of Rodriguez we all need to say how much of a hero he really is. At this point though, I'm not really that interested in what he has to say- especially when he acts in a way which I guess can only be described as "flaky".
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Agreed, except that I do not call Rodriguez a "hero" and I feel no compunction whatsoever to join the fray in bestowing that title upon him. That said, I acknowledge that he exhibited some bravery that day - as did many hundreds of other people who have not made it their life's mission to gain recognition for themselves in the process.

His reluctance to be interviewed by anyone who does not adhere to unfounded conspiracy theories; his failure to respond in any meaningful fashion to those who do not share his "9/11 was an inside job" mantra; and the lengths to which he will go to avoid a simple, straightforward discussion about his numerous inconsistent accounts of events - in which he could, if he chose to do so, clear up the numerous inconsistencies in his various accounts of events - lead me to disbelieve his current story.

To those who have a problem with the foregoing, I say, "So, sue me." As a trial lawyer, I am quite accustomed to dealing with ever-changing stories by witnesses. So far, I see nothing to indicate that William Rodriguez' current version of events in his ever-changing story is any more deserving of belief than his original version, just like I see nothing to indicate that the current version of events by numerous other people who have provided ever-changing stories in countless other cases (that have not made the national news) are any more worthy of belief than their initial versions.

I will, of course, reconsider my position if William ever shows up to answer legitimate questions about his various versions of events, but so far, he has not done so.

(dons flame-retardant suit)
 
LashL said:
Agreed, except that I do not call Rodriguez a "hero" and I feel no compunction whatsoever to join the fray in bestowing that title upon him. That said, I acknowledge that he exhibited some bravery that day - as did many hundreds of other people who have not made it their life's mission to gain recognition for themselves in the process.

His reluctance to be interviewed by anyone who does not adhere to unfounded conspiracy theories; his failure to respond in any meaningful fashion to those who do not share his "9/11 was an inside job" mantra; and the lengths to which he will go to avoid a simple, straightforward discussion about his numerous inconsistent accounts of events - in which he could, if he chose to do so, clear up the numerous inconsistencies in his various accounts of events - lead me to disbelieve his current story.

To those who have a problem with the foregoing, I say, "So, sue me." As a trial lawyer, I am quite accustomed to dealing with ever-changing stories by witnesses. So far, I see nothing to indicate that William Rodriguez' current version of events in his ever-changing story is any more deserving of belief than his original version, just like I see nothing to indicate that the current version of events by numerous other people who have provided ever-changing stories in countless other cases (that have not made the national news) are any more worthy of belief than their initial versions.

I will, of course, reconsider my position if William ever shows up to answer legitimate questions about his various versions of events, but so far, he has not done so.

(dons flame-retardant suit)
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You look kinda cute in that suit :)
 
Pardalis said:
You don't seem to me to be a "truther", but on the other hand, from what we see in the videos, none other than Alex Jones is introducing you. That kind of association can only put you in that "conspiracy theorist" camp, I'm afraid.

You must be aware of this? Are you?
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Surely, he is. Check out the loose change vanity videos from September 2006 - William shows up in them frequently, telling the loose changers where to place their cameras, giving them advice on shots, and even interrupting poor Jason in the middle of an "interview" and telling him that they have to go and focus their cameras elsewhere, etc. etc.
 
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LashL said:
snip

(dons flame-retardant suit)
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Oh Noes... not another Flame War! My posts are disappearing into AAH, Forum Management, and Flame Wars every day. I'm an old man and I get confused easily, so let's not start, okay? (insert sarcastic smiley)

Seriously, your points are excellent. My only bit added here was that I concur that an interview, a pointed interview, would be a better venue than a debate. Ron knows the details of William's four or five talking points very well, and could easily handle the facts and evidence under consideration.

I, too, think the William needs to get out and clear up some of this confusion. Personally, and obviously purely subjective on my part, I think he just gets carried away sometimes and takes it to the next level, trying to get the audience on his side.

Lenny Bruce had a bit about a bad "schtick" comedian doing the Albert Hall, and trying to get the crowd behind him. All to no avail, so he decided to make an off-color comment, "◊◊◊◊ the Irish!". And the crowd riots in support. The comic says to the booking agent, "Hey, I just got carried away with the moment - it was a joke!" Sez the booking agent, "Not around here, it isn't." Sometimes I see William and a few others in that fictional character.
 
Here is my honest opinion. I don't care if you were so heroic that you ran up and down ALL of the stairs in WTC 1 AND 2 50 times carrying two old ladies on your shoulders to the bottom each time WHILE you were on fire. If you are going to make baseless, conspirator claims directing the blame of those really responsible for 9/11 to innocent people, you had BETTER be able to come up with some explanations for your claims. It really does not matter how heroic you were that day. There is absolutely NO excuse for that kind of behavior. Ron if you do have Rodriguez on the show, there is no reason to treat him any differently then other twoofers if he is going to make twoofer claims.
 
Foolmewunz said:
<snip>My only bit added here was that I concur that an interview, a pointed interview, would be a better venue than a debate. Ron knows the details of William's four or five talking points very well, and could easily handle the facts and evidence under consideration.

I, too, think the William needs to get out and clear up some of this confusion. Personally, and obviously purely subjective on my part, I think he just gets carried away sometimes and takes it to the next level, trying to get the audience on his side.
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I agree with you that an interview rather than a debate is definitely the way to go here. Rodriguez has made various statements, many of them internally and externally inconsistent, and this would seem the perfect opportunity for him to clear things up if, as he alleges, he has been misquoted.

I, for one, find it puzzling that he has made no efforts to do so over the past five and a half years, but I am willing to hear him out if he steps up and does so on the platform that is being offered to him.

I won't, however, hold my breath waiting for him to do so. I get the distinct impression that he's only willing to speak when he knows that he is preaching to the choir. And as mentioned above, I have no more reason to believe his most recent version of events than I do to believe the most recent version of anyone else who has changed their story numerous times.

(As an aside, I've always had a strange affinity for Lenny Bruce - maybe I'm just twisted :) )
 
William has expressed an interest to participate in this debate, but has refused. While it is somewhat surprising that he has turned Ron down because he called it a 'challange' on a forum, the subsequent hounding of the man has been mildly hysterical.

The man chose to go on a show, then he refused. Let's get a grip eh?
 
Undesired Walrus said:
William has expressed an interest to participate in this debate, but has refused. While it is somewhat surprising that he has turned Ron down because he called it a 'challange' on a forum, the subsequent hounding of the man has been mildly hysterical.

The man chose to go on a show, then he refused. Let's get a grip eh?
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Hounding? We're trying to get his issues settled, and give him the spotlight to clear up the misconceptions. Yes, some are doing it with a sledge hammer, but essentially, if you read through the above, you see just as many well-tempered and reasonable responses... and even an apology from Ron for whatever perceived infraction, and an apology from Parky for perhaps over-reacting, too.

Frankly, I think most of us would just like to seem him away from the 911 Was an Inside Job bullhorns, and let the man speak. I think there are a certain number here, also, who think his halo is a little tarnished and would like to set it back in place. (I'm not in that category, btw. The man can disagree with me until the cows come home and I'll take him to task for that. Yet, his actions on 9/11 stand on their own as an act of bravery, for which I commend him highly.)
 
And all your points have merit, but the simple fact of the matter is, this is an private matter for Ron and William, not any of us.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
And all your points have merit, but the simple fact of the matter is, this is an private matter for Ron and William, not any of us.
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Perhaps it "should have been a private..... etc...."
They brought it public, and we're not exactly known for our disinterest and silence around here.

I get your point, also. See my original post in this thread questioning whether the OP may have been ill-advised. Now that the horse has bolted from the barn, I'm just hoping to keep it civil and get it back on track. (Eeeew! Next I'll be applying for a mod position.)

Running late.... Happy Hour in Hong Kong and being the day before the Labor Day break, I promised some of my coworkers I'd join them for a pint. Won't likely be back on line for another 14 or 15 hours, so this thread may be a couple of hundred posts by then.
 
Unfortunatly, the truthers are jumping on the back of this, proving my point that they will use William's position to get one-up on the "evil JREF's".

Geez. Why do some of these "debunkers" claim to be "liberal"?
Its like the they hate us more than neo Nazis, pedophiles and campus shooters combined. And why? Because we dare raise questions about the one event that got us into these racist wars?

Why doesnt someone post a "debunking the WMDs in Iraq conspiracy" thread there?
Yeah, they probably think Saddam was behind 9/11 and has magical WMDs buried. idiots.

WE, the truthers, are ANTI WAR. ANTI RACIST. WE DONT LIKE RACIST WARS FOR OIL AND DOMINATION. WE DONT LIKE SEEING 9/11 HEROES DYING OF RESPIRATORY ILLNESS. Cant they get that through their thick skulls?
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Um.. racist wars?

I am somewhat worrying that truthers do not actually know what 'racist' means, and whether they are aware that their main theory is born on clear racism against arabs.

In other news.. just incase they forget..
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80690
 
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someone@LC said:
Geez. Why do some of these "debunkers" claim to be "liberal"?
Its like the they hate us more than neo Nazis, pedophiles and campus shooters combined. And why? Because we dare raise questions about the one event that got us into these racist wars?

Why doesnt someone post a "debunking the WMDs in Iraq conspiracy" thread there? Yeah, they probably think Saddam was behind 9/11 and has magical WMDs buried. idiots.

WE, the truthers, are ANTI WAR. ANTI RACIST. WE DONT LIKE RACIST WARS FOR OIL AND DOMINATION. WE DONT LIKE SEEING 9/11 HEROES DYING OF RESPIRATORY ILLNESS. Cant they get that through their thick skulls?
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What an ignorant post. The first paragraph is just plain awful. Has anyone of us ever claimed Saddam was behind 9/11, never. Truthers in general are much more racist. Do we like to see anyone dying of respiratory illness, never has anyone said so.

Stupid claims.
 
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