Do you really consider 4 people, 2 rooms, 2 dice and a pen and paper a lot of resources? The whole point is that if the test is not controlled it is worthless, and a remote test cannot be controlled. Why are you so opposed to taking a test locally?
challenge procedure questions
- Thread starter latent aaaack
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Do you really consider 4 people, 2 rooms, 2 dice and a pen and paper a lot of resources? The whole point is that if the test is not controlled it is worthless, and a remote test cannot be controlled. Why are you so opposed to taking a test locally?
Ditto. And what is it with the mysterious attitude:
Please indulge me, latent aaaack, I do not consider the following inquiries inadequate:
vIQleS
Muse
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Sorry - i didn't look at the dates. I started reading this thread about two weeks ago, and then i got sick. When i got back all the threads were still open so i finished reading them...
gulp.. I think I have a real dumb question to ask.. about the MDC.. but I would appreciate your response.
Would it qualify for a challenge?
like..
What if someone comes up and prove that paranormality and everything on the list for the MDC, doesnt exist?
Would that cause a conflict? Or would it be disregarded?
What would this be called? A lot of people are trying to prove one of the things on the list to be authentic or in reality, what about those who can prove that those things on the list isnt real or isnt authentic?
Would it qualify for a challenge?
like..
What if someone comes up and prove that paranormality and everything on the list for the MDC, doesnt exist?
Would that cause a conflict? Or would it be disregarded?
What would this be called? A lot of people are trying to prove one of the things on the list to be authentic or in reality, what about those who can prove that those things on the list isnt real or isnt authentic?
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Very difficult to prove a negative. All it takes is someone looking at something in a different way and an impossible thing is proved true.
Pup
Philosopher
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As rjh01 said, that would be just about impossible, except by doing numerous tests and concluding based on the preponderance of the evidence, which is kinda where we already are right now.
What would you suggest as a simple test that would prove once and for all that some paranormal thing doesn't exist?
If one douser fails a test, all it shows is that *he* can't douse. If one psychic gets answers wrong, all it proves is that *she* can't talk with the dead.
How would you prove with a single test that dousing itself can never work, or that no one can ever talk with the dead?
Apparently this means that we cannot prove paranormal (etc) to be true and we cannot prove paranormal(etc) to be false?...
Otherwise its a balanced equation??? One that cannot be proven true nor proven false. Otherwise all those things on that list for the MDC .. is equal in this sense?
If this is true then noone on earth will be able to win the MDC.
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Jackalgirl
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What Pup & rjh01 said.
Pro7, do you have any proposal for a protocol that will difinitively prove that no paranormal ability/effect, as listed on the MDC FAQ, exists? How would you go about proving that?
Pro7, do you have any proposal for a protocol that will difinitively prove that no paranormal ability/effect, as listed on the MDC FAQ, exists? How would you go about proving that?
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
One thing we can show, is that it is extremely unlikely that paranormal abilities exist. For example dousing. There are many people who say they can know how to find water by the use of a stick or other similar instrument. They have subjected themselves to double blind testing. They have failed in these tests, time and time again to show they have any ability above chance.
Most reasonable people will conclude that dousing does not work. However we cannot prove this statement to be true as there may be one person in the world who knows how to douse, and we have not yet tested this one person.
Most reasonable people will conclude that dousing does not work. However we cannot prove this statement to be true as there may be one person in the world who knows how to douse, and we have not yet tested this one person.
Irrelevant.
The Million Dollar Challenge is about proving what one claims to be able to do. Nothing more, nothing less.
Please try to not hijack this thread. If anyone considers this subject to be of serious interest, consider opening a new thread. (You might be able to prove your mettle, Pro7.)
Nah Im not goin to open a new thread about proving things that dont exist.
From what I know, when someone uses "proving what one claims to be able to do", will be very attractive, but yet will never work because of the equal balance of reality and imagination. (For example, as if paranormal cannot be proven true as what one claims to be true and also paranormal cannot be proven false as what one claims to be false)
The way I see it, the MDC is flawed. The tester "wins in every testable case".
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Your point is well taken. It comes up regularly in this subforum.
How do you propose to get rid of said alleged flaw, Pro7? Because the possibility of paranormal powers exists, doesn't it?
Alleged flaw? There is no allegation, however it is what I see it from a point of view.
For example... this is your "possibility of paranormal powers exists":
If a person claims that he/she is able to levitate anything off of the ground, by using his/her mental powers. He/she shows a video of the levitation and shows it to anyone who is interested.
People will state that this is impossible, but yet, have already seen the video. People recommend to the person who does the levitation to apply for the MDC.
That person applies for the MDC and goes through the process.
He/she completes the process of the MDC successfully, he/she wins the $1 mil challenge by showing everyone that this is true as what was depicted in the video.
Now..
Has anyone won that $1 mil challenge yet? no..
so it would stand to reason that this type of paranormality doesnt exist because it was proven false. The tester had proven that this person's claim is false because of numerous reasons that it showed that way.
I hope you understand what Im trying to say.
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I am not quite sure if I understand what you're trying to say.
If the person claiming levitation has proved the claim under proper scientific conditions:
1. In real time in a repeatable process
2. Eliminating cheating
3. In front of a critical audience,
what doubts could arise from that?
In reality,
When there is a way to prove doubt, there will be doubt. If a person does this levitation act a lot of times in front of the entire world, the MDC scientific procedures will always say its false. It will say its a illusion, it will say its a hoax, it will say anything that will debunk that levitation act.
In most cases, a person doing levitation of such kind, will be considered as a magician using clever illusion tactics.
That is why the MDC challenge will never work.
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When the levitation act is performed successfully in accordance with a mutually agreed upon protocol - after a proper application in a Formal Test- the JREF is legally bound to shell out the mil. Badabing badaboom.
It would be indeed correct only if the agreed protocol is completed. The MDC procedures wont allow completion because there will always be doubt.
And your point was?
As for the MDC procedures, there can't be doubt because the test rests upon the mutually agreed upon protocol.
Either success or failure. One can do what one claims or one can't. It's that simple.