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challenge history

Not to flog a long dead horse, but I remember at the time the
EGG statistics looked pretty convincing to me. Moot point anyhow.

I posted a link in the astrology thread explaining the answers to the points you raise; I am pretty much in agreement with the answers given.

As for being a willing participant in my study, I've got plenty of study recruits, although with American IRB laws for human subject testing, they must be physically examined by the MD who is the principal investigator. Also have promised free supplies for the study from manufacturers. What I don't have is an MD willing to work for free as principal investigator or help me get grant money. I couldn't even get a grad student, I tried. Now if you're an MD and want to help me, that's a different story.

However, if you want to try it for fun the whole thing is on my website. Giving away the info for free, which is why the venture capital boys turned me down too. Took down the science behind it from the site because I am writing a book, but basically the thing works by raising free testosterone, balancing serotonin and dopamine in the brain, and improving circulation and PC muscle tone strength. There's a version for men on my messageboard too which seems to be working very well.

http://www.orgasmicdiet.com

Sorry, get me started talking on this topic and I can't shut up. Actually it sort of is tied in to why I'm here because I am my own guinea pig, and the diet does give VERY high dopamine levels, which of course make one feel like one is psychic. Part of the reason I keep coming back to this site as a reality check. It's like if heroin were good for you, a health food.
 
Ashles said:
Are you saying you have the ability to increase women's libido and cause them to reach orgasm faster?

Then don't bother with the JREF - set up your own website and training centre and you will be a millionnaire in about 2 weeks.
Write a book about it.

If you can really do this for the majority of women who are currently unable to do this then you will be set for life and I am sure we will be reading about you in the future.

Just make sure it's not another thing you believe you can do with no real evidence that you actually can.
Click to expand...

Now I am angry. I am writing a book about it, but it's been a struggle because I'm not an MD, publishing houses are very conservative about any kind of diet book not being written by an MD, even a diet as harmless as mine.

I have a website, which by the way gets a pretty healthy hitrate. I'm not selling the information, I'm giving it away. It does work. I was already asked to speak impromptu at the first seminar in North America on FSD. I was trying to be scientific, not surround the process in secrecy and voodoo.

But I've derailed this sticky thread enough already with this off-topic stuff, I'm going to start a new one, because now I'm thoroughly ticked.
 
Well I've had a look at your website and it appears to encourage healthy eating and getting all your vitamins and a vaginal workout.

I don't doubt this would probably help with many areas of a woman's (or man's) body function.

I agree with publishers in dissuading non-medically trained people from writing diet books (as the damage from lawsuits would be very costly to them).
In the case of your diet though, it seems very non-controversial and doesn't seem like it could possibly do any harm, indeed it encourages healthy living. That might be the problem for the publishers though - it is very simple indeed. Get your vitamins, work out in the appropriate area and that's really it. There are many, many books on this subject and improving your sex life by healthy eating is, by no means, a new concept.
You are reinforcing currently held medical advice on improving your sex life and sexual functioning.

It's great to see it nicely put together and well explained as on your website and I am sure this is helping a great many women.

I am sorry if I came across a little cross above but claims to help medical complaints using unusual methods really concern me and are often given out by people with no medical background and some of them are at best useless, and at worst, downright harmful.
There are so many fad diets that go against the very basic principles of healthy dieting and seemed to be designed solely so you can continue to eat whatever you like. Or if you eat certain things some medical conditions will just go away. A close eye needs to be kept on those claims.

But your diet seems extremely sensible and worthwhile and, 'm sure, women following your advice will find themselves feeling better in many different ways. Hell, I'm pretty sure it would work for men too.

Good luck with the book.
 
It is not just healthy eating. See my response in the other thread.
 
Marrena said:
. . . . the thing works by raising free testosterone, balancing serotonin and dopamine in the brain, and improving circulation and PC muscle tone strength. . . .
Click to expand...

How do you know that if you haven't done any studies?

About getting an MD collaborator, supplies, IRB compliance, a grant, etc.: Funded research is my racket. Virtually all research grants, particularly Federal grants, are awarded not to individuals but to institutions. You need to approach a school of medicine at a university and try to get somebody interested in submitting a proposal, most likely to NIH. Before you undertake research on humans, consider animal studies.

But to get a serious person interested, you'll have to be able to answer the question I started with: How do you know it works?

A tip: Don't mention the astrology stuff.
 
ARGH! Okay, looks like this thread is officially derailed. I apologize. I've approached institutions and had no interest. Actually have been promised NIH would do a large study on the thing if I had a preliminary small study, just twenty women, showing positive results. That's part of the reason I've been so frantic to get the study going, because I've got that carrot dangling in front of me. I've got an offer to publish already for God's sake! Why aren't grad students beating down my door?

I've got animal studies already, plenty showing that the particular components of my diet do the specific things I say, for example, increasing testosterone or dopamine. Hell, there are already some rigorous studies showing PC muscle exercise alone will give some women vaginal orgasmic ability. Also impeccable animal studies showing the correlation between high dopamine and free testosterone and sexual ability (felt sorry for the rodents--bred to basically be tiny heroin junkies and then they get castrated, poor things).

I've got like a forty-page protocol for my study, complete with licensed official forms used in FSD clinical trials of pharmaceuticals and the official questionnaires, all the statistics, etc., etc., etc. I've got another forty-page book proposal stuffed with scientific footnotes.

Basically the big problem is that there are multiple things--the vitamins, the diet, the PC muscle exercise. I can't do a double-blind, placebo-controlled study on PC muscle exercise. I don't even need it that sort of control for this initial study. Twenty women--before and after with questionnaires. But it has to be with an IRB blessing of course and done the standard way. I'm not an MD--my supervising investigator is (and a very good one, an expert in this field) but that's not good enough.
 
What the hell, I didn't come here for this, but I grab advice anywhere I can take it.

That's my pic. I'm located in Boston. Just want to you to know I'm real and being forthright and very interested in any help or advice you can give me. Last scientist I talked to, old hand with the NIH, he said I had to incorporate and again, get somebody official as principal investigator. I've gone to the Lahey Clinic, the BU clinic, both world famous, I've contacted medical schools and even the more crunchy end of female health medical establishments, like Dr. Northrup and the Boston Women's Health Collective. Radcliffe. I've pestered so many places I've forgotten them all. I'm here in Boston, in medical research central--no one is interested. My supervising investigator is huge in the field--he was involved with Pfizer's trials of Viagra on women (which failed--because Viagra slows down orgasm)--he can't get me anybody. He's contacted doctors and professors in the field all over the country. That's why I'm finally going the book route, still waiting to hear from my literary agent.
 
I need some filling in

Did someone -at NIH- promise "to do a large study" if you could produce results from a preliminary study?

Who (and for that matter what) is your "supervising investigator?"

You don't need to incorporate, just find an institution of higher education to submit the proposal. If you're already affiliated or employed at a college or university or teaching hospital, you can be a principal investigator.

What reasons did the various clinics give for turning you down?
 
Someone with strong connections to the NIH promised an NIH study if I could get a positive preliminary. I'm not going to post her name here or talk about particulars, likewise I'm not going to post my supervising investigator's name here either. This is in fact a board relating to paranormal research and attracts raving nutcases the world over. I'd be happy to e-mail you their names and all particulars, and if you give me assurance you are who you say you are I'll give you contact info. Gladly.

I'm a housewife--I quit my job to have kids. I've got an Ivy League math degree and expertise in computer programming and network systems--I have zero medical background and am not in any way affiliated with a university or any other institution. I worked at an environmental consulting company for ten years, a small one, so they had me do double-duty as a statistician for a big indoor air quality project they were doing for the EPA and I ended up project manager, so I know about government red tape, etc., but I don't have the kind of connections you are talking about. When I have talked to the power hitters in this field, they've gotten enthusiastic and all say "As soon as you have preliminary data we'd be very interested," and I've even had offers of arm-bending of junior colleagues to be the PI, but no one's bit. Most places if I go in cold won't give me the time of day, I don't get a response from the letters, e-mails and calls. Because I'm a housewife. The fact that experts are even talking to me is from the good word of my supervising investigator who does have long experience and a high reputation in the field.

The only people who have given me the time of day are the very top people in the FSD field, who are too busy and important to do a preliminary study, although they've been very encouraging. And at the other end, the Wiccans. Nobody else. Even getting women who have posted on FSD boards for years looking for solutions are a tough sell to try it (men however, seem to try it at the drop of a hat, rather ironic).

I stumbled on the diet accidentally. I was on antidepressants, like so many women. At the time they were recommending not to be on any antidepressants when trying to get pregnant, so being a smart cookie I started doing research into natural ways of manipulating brain chemistry through diet and supplements because my biological clock was ticking. My natal nutritionist put me further on the path. Finally, after my second baby got vaginal cone weights to tighten up the tone, and lo and behold I became spontaneously orgasmic. Started doing further research into why, did guinea pig experiments on myself, tried available aphrodisiacs like Arginmax for Women which has passed double-blind placebo-controlled tests, found my diet worked better, started telling other women about it, women started trying it, and it works. It really works. Anecdotal evidence but not for lack of trying.
 
Well I would like to say that I have nothing but utmost respect for you Marrena for several reasons:

1) Posting your own picture is an unusual policy, but it would be nice if we all did that
2) You have come on the boards of a skeptic website, tried to do astrology and then admitted it might not work (I haven't been here that long but I can't remember anyone else doing anything similar)
3) Most importantly - You have an idea you think will work and are trying you hardest to see it through. You have obviously researched it very well (better, in my opinion, than many diet plans currently on bestseller lists) and you are doing this with kids at home. I don't as yet have children myself, but I hear they take up at least a certain portion of your time.

I genuinely hope that you get the funding or help you want as you are trying to get your diet actually medically researched and examined scientifically.
As I'm sure you know you don't need to be a 'bona fide' scientist to create new ideas. Einstein was of course famously a patent clerk when he created his most famous theories. But you do need to follow scientific protocol after that. This, you appear to be rigorously doing and I wish you all the best with your endeavours.

Please keep us updated as to the progress.
 
Marrena said:
But I've derailed this
sticky thread enough already with this off- topic stuff...
^^^^^
[/B]
Click to expand...

Probably shouldn't shouldn't make my first post like this but I just loved the unintended pun ...

I'll be quiet now.
 
Ashles said:
Well I would like to say that I have nothing but utmost respect for you Marrena for several reasons:

3) Most importantly - You have an idea you think will work and are trying you hardest to see it through. You have obviously researched it very well (better, in my opinion, than many diet plans currently on bestseller lists) and you are doing this with kids at home. I don't as yet have children myself, but I hear they take up at least a certain portion of your time.
Click to expand...

And in an attempt at a more serious post than my previous - you've got my respect as well. Just the thought of the amount of work you've done and still have to do (not counting with kids at home as well) makes me tired. Don't let anyone or anything steal away your intensity...
 
It's just given me an unusual perspective on the scientific community. There's not a doubt in my mind I'd have my study under my belt right now if my diet were patentable, like an herbal blend.

You know what really gets my goat? Avlimil. Talk about charlatans. A proprietary herbal blend, one of those everything-but-the-kitchen sink herbals. One hundred million in sales last year to women desperate to fix their FSD. Marketed as a pharmaceutical, "Ask your doctor about Avlimil..." heavy advertising budget. No testing, even though they have plenty of money for it and it's a pill, easy to test. Contains valerian, an herbal tranquilizer, sage, which has been known to cause serious side effects at high doses like convulsions, and of course the active ingredient--capsicum. Hot pepper. Causes irritation of the urethra similar to Spanish Fly. That's what women are feeling. Unfortunately Dr. Beverly Whipple has shown that eating spicy foods over long periods of time can cause a permanent decrease in genital sensation in women.

Finally it does contain damiana, which in my opinion does work as an aphrodisiac for women whose FSD is primarily related to nervousness and an inability to relax. However, it should be taken a half hour before sex, not every morning. The effect is temporary and actually dangerous if a woman is driving.

One hundred million dollars for a harmful bogus herbal blend, and my thing that actually works with good science behind it, I can't even get a grad student interested to do a simple study where I would do all the work anyhow. I could accept it if doctors and scientists were telling me I'm wrong. But they aren't, they're telling me I'm right! Is it any wonder I'm a little testy?
 
Marrena said:
... the ability to dramatically increase women's libido and give them the ability to have easy and fast vaginal orgasms.
Click to expand...

[Barry White] The Hand Bent Spoon's been doin' that for years now, baby. Oh, yeah! [/Barry White]

:D
 
KRAMER said:
OK, Peter, I'll engage you on this for a while to see if we just might get somewhere. Here's your chance to exhibit a sense of reason.

"A chap", you say?

What "chap"? What's his name? What's his claim? Come on, Peter. Tell me what I need to know.

Did he apply? If so, I will check his file and report on this within an hour of my having received the necessary information. If he never applied for the Challenge, there's nothing to discuss.

So until you tell me WHO this "chap" is, you're being as anecdotal as any applicant who makes a claim and wants us to take him seriously without a demonstration. We won't even do that, and I won't communicate with you any further than this if your idea of fairness is to toss out accusations with zero evidential support.

So tell me the name of the "chap", and I'll respond in specific.

But before you do, allow me to say this:

If an applicant claims he can fly, and insists on being tested by a scientist, I'm very sorry, Peter, but dragging some poor scientist out of his lab or away from his students is just not gonna happen. We don't need a scientist to test such a claim.

Heck, we could even have YOU go out there and test that.

On second thought...
Click to expand...

Kramer, you make ThaiBoxerKen look smart.

Its the same person we've been discussing all along. The one YOU brought up. You know, the one with the rock. The guy that I've talked about in previous messages in this thread. How is it possible not to understand that? Or maybe you're just trolling.

Just to remind you Randi has made several promises in the past. In fact his "proof" that his tests are "fair" rests on these.

1) Randi says that he will call upon proper academic and scientific expertise to conduct the tests.

2) Randi says that his tests are designed independently from himself and carried out by a third party. Randi claims to remove himself from the process.

3) Randi claims that his tests are always done by independant qualified third parties. (not sometimes or frequently but always.)


So, we have a guy with a magic rock who wants his rock tested. He has requested an expert scientist trained in the relevant field to conduct the test. And why not? Such a person would fit Randi's promises.

Randi promises "scientific expertise to conduct t the test" - why not give him this in the form of a high energy scientist?

Randi promises tests that are designed and carried out independently - why not call on an energy scientist to do this?

Randi says his tests are done by third parties - why not have an energy scientist as that third party?

To me, it seems that Mr Magic Rock has made a perfectly reasonable request, while Randi is being deliberately obstructive.


Can you explain WHY Randi is so reluctant to let a scientist perform this test? Could you go and ask him for a direct answer?
 
Peter Morris said:
Randi promises "scientific expertise to conduct t the test" - why not give him this in the form of a high energy scientist?
Click to expand...


Oh, sure, I've got one of those right here in a box. He loves it in there! I'll just break the seal... :rolleyes:

To me, it seems that Mr Magic Rock has made a perfectly reasonable request, while Randi is being deliberately obstructive.
Click to expand...

Tell us again why you need a 'high-energy scientist" to tell if ice is melting.
 
I'll grant you, it was pretty obvious who you meant when you said "chap". But you know don't you, that that is not really the issue?

Randi has made several promises in the past. In fact his "proof" that his tests are "fair" rests on these.

1) Randi says that he will call upon proper academic and scientific expertise to conduct the tests.
Click to expand...
Please show an example where this promise is made. Just one example please. I've looked and I've looked and I just can't find one.

Randi promises "scientific expertise to conduct t the test"
Click to expand...
Same as above, (since you seem to base this on the same promise) can you please cite an example?

The closest I can find to this alleged promise, is your oft referenced "To achieve this, we call upon proper academic and scientific expertise to advise us and/or actually conduct the tests."

And yet, the and/or tells me that there is no promise to have any scientific expert actually conduct the test. Only that the JREF reserves the right to do so.

why not give him this in the form of a high energy scientist?
Click to expand...
For a number of reasons...
1) It is not necessary.
2) It is expensive to get an outside expert in, and I can guarantee that Dalton won't pay for it.
3) Dalton doesn't even know what type of scientist he wants.

To me, it seems that Mr Magic Rock has made a perfectly reasonable request, while Randi is being deliberately obstructive.
Click to expand...
I disagree, and I think most people would. Especially since Dalton went from promising that the rock could be tested under any condition the JREF required, to this current state of affairs.
 
Peter sez :

Randi has made several promises in the past. In fact his "proof" that his tests are "fair" rests on these.

1) Randi says that he will call upon proper academic and scientific expertise to conduct the tests.
Click to expand...

To which JohnF_73 replies :

Please show an example where this promise is made. Just one example please. I've looked and I've looked and I just can't find one.
Click to expand...

Oh $***
:hb:
You've looked and looked, but didn't read earlier in this thread where I posted it. Of course If you'd used the searh feature to check the archives you could have found those words easily enough.

But just for you, here is the quote - again.

http://www.randi.org/jr/03-27-2000.html
We do say that we stay within scientific boundaries when designing the protocol and implementing any tests. To achieve this, we call upon proper academic and scientific expertise to advise us and/or actually conduct the tests.
Click to expand...


Randi fans, I know you are a strange bunch, but do I really have to keep posting the same quote, only to have you lot deny that you've seen it, then expect me to post it all over again?

How many times does it take?

:hit:
 
Hm. I wonder if Peter is being deliberately obtuse or if he really believes that he is making a reasonable argument.

Actually, it doesn't matter. If he's being obtuse, there's no arguing with him. If he still believes he is making a reasonable argument despite all the evidence to the contrary, then how is one to convince him otherwise?

Only Peter can answer this question, I'm afraid. Maybe the rejection of Dalton's claims by a court of law, or denial of the case will be convincing.
 
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