• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

challenge history

vancouverskeptic

New Blood
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
6
How long has the Million Dollar Challenge been going on, and how many challengers have there been? Are records of the challenges available?

I've spent a good hour looking for this information, but can't find it anywhere at randi.org. If I'm in need of a FAQ document, please direct me there. Thanks in advance.

p.s. I've been reading posts hither, thither and yon. Fascinating stuff. Might have to stick around. :)
 
vancouverskeptic said:
p.s. I've been reading posts hither, thither and yon. Fascinating stuff. Might have to stick around. :)
Welcome to the forums! This IS a fascinating place. Do stick around. :)
 
No online records (apart from what is in Randi's commentary). There is a rumour that there will be, at some time, be an online archive of previous challenges and status on current and in progress applicants. But no firm date has been given.

You could drop a PM to KRAMER who is the person at the JREF in charge of the admin side of the challenge.
 
Thanks for the link, JimTheBrit -- that certainly tells me how long the challenge has been going on.

Now, does anyone know how many challengers there have been? A firm number would be nice, but even a low-ball guesstimate would be good to have.

I'm asking, by the way, so that I can explain the significance of the Million Dollar Challenge in an article that I am writing about critical thinking. It's more meaningful if I can say, "The Million Dollar Challenge has been running for 20 years and 60 challengers have failed to prove supernatural abilities." Without that information, I have to be quite vague.

I'm actually quite surprised that this information is not displayed prominently on the Million Dollar Challenge page. Much like the "Sylvia clock," it seems like the history of the challenge is quite interesting and relevant information to advertise to the credulous and the curious.
 
The JREF ONE MILLION DOLLAR PARANORMAL CHALLENGE has been in effect since 1993, though it existed previous to that date in increments of $10,000 and upward to its present million dollar status.

To date, thousand of people have inquired about the Challenge and presented claims, promising to send applications. Only about 250 people have actually officially applied.

Nearly 190 applications were closed. Only a small handful of those were closed as a result of being "rejected". The great majority of claim files were closed due to the applicant's refusal to agree to a scientific test protocol.

At this moment, 77 applications remain open, although most of these are "inactive", meaning that applications were submitted, but then the applicants vanished after realizing that their claim will not stand up to scientific scrutiny. We hold all application open for 12 months before closing them due to inactivity.

Of those 77, 16 are presently in the process of negotiating a test protocol. Of those 16, the only one that I can foresee as nearing a protocol agreement is a man in who claims he can "make lights appear using only a dark room, and my music". He lives in Ohio.

Most people making paranormal claims begin by very politely stating their claim, usually insisting that it can be demonstrated "under whatever conditions JREF requires".
In 99% of the cases I have administered since arriving here,
nothing could be further from the truth, and I have seen only ONE applicant tested - a "remote viewer" in the Philadelphia area who failed spectaculary, with results even lower than chance would have provided.

Among those who have been negotiating a test protocol for months on end but refuse to agree to a test that adheres to scientific procedure are:

1- A man from Michigan who claims to have a gemstone that emits radiation (AKA:alienrockwheredoesitcomefrom.com) but, after months of wrangling now states that he "refuses to have my gemstone investigated under conditions I do not agree to"...

2- A man from Ohio who claims to be able to "emit PSI energy from my hands which can be detected by the recipient...I submit that I am able to demonstrate this using a well designed scientific method with a success rate of 90-100%"...
This applicants file is now over 100 pages long, and shows no sign of approaching any form of agreement, much to the chagrin of the South Shore Skeptics Group and Mr. Jim Kutz, who has worked so tirelessly for so many months on defining an acceptable protocol (using, at the applicants initial insistence, The Emily Rosa Protocols)...

3- A dowswer in Germany who is just beginning protocol negotiations (whom I am hoping will be tested during Randi's upcoming visit to Germany)...

4- A dowser in California who recently did a no-show for a test, then called in to say he "hurt his foot", and never contacted CFI-West for a new test date...

5- A dowser in Ireland who insists upon being tested in Holland...

6- Two perpetual motion applicants for whom I am having difficulty locating qualified investigators willing to donate the time to testing a device that is, according to the laws of physics, impossible...

7- A homeopathist in England who wants several people suffering from extreme high blood pressure to go off their medication for a few weeks so that he can prove that homeopathic remedies cure high blood pressure...

8- Another homeopathic enthusiast whose initial claim involved him smoking copious amounts of hashish and then curing his blooshot eyes via homeopathic remedy WITHIN 30-60 MINUTES (which is of course around the time it would take for his bloosdhot eyes to remedy themselves with no help at all) - this gentleman, upon our rejection of his claim due to our reticence to test claims involving illicit materials, now proposes to demonstrate the same claim after smoking too much tobacco...

9- A woman in Whales whose initial claim was that she can paint a portrait of a dead person by viewing objects the dead person owned, but now wants to consult persons who KNEW the deceased, and have them present and responding to questions about the deceased during the painting process. Clearly a convoluted cold-reading case.

10 - A woman in the upstate NY area who claims that she can make her dog (or her neighbor's dog) respond to "psychic commands", but has not responded to us since we insisted that she do so while physically and audibly isolated from the dog.

Dog tricks, cold-reading, remote viewing, dowsing, a hash smoker, dowsing, homeopathy, dowsing, perpetual motion, dowsing, a rock from outer space, and more dowsing.

Those are the facts.
 
A woman in Whales whose initial claim was that she can paint a portrait

She can paint portraits while inside whales?

Surely that would be worth a million! :D

Or did you mean this sort of Wales?
1255.gif

;)
 
KRAMER said:
The JREF ONE MILLION DOLLAR PARANORMAL CHALLENGE has been in effect since 1993...
- snip -
Those are the facts.

Thank you, Kramer, that answered my questions and then some.

What a fascinating job you have. And often frustrating, I imagine! I don't know if this is the right place for it, but I would find it interesting if you would share some of your thoughts and feelings about this process. For instance, have you ever hoped for any more credible challenges, or is it just satisfying to see the inevitable failure of one bizarre challenge after another? Are the challengers difficult to work with? I can only assume that many of them cannot agree to a protocol because they believe that proposed tests are "unfair" in some way... it must get exasperating at times!

If these are inappropriate questions, I apologize. Reading your post, I just can't help but wonder...! :)
 
KRAMER said:
To date, thousand of people have inquired about the Challenge and presented claims, promising to send applications. Only about 250 people have actually officially applied.

Nearly 190 applications were closed. Only a small handful of those were closed as a result of being "rejected". The great majority of claim files were closed due to the applicant's refusal to agree to a scientific test protocol.

Really? If we asked the applicants we might get a different version of events. Perhaps they would say that Randi never offered them a scientific test protocol.

For example, one applicant claims that he dropped out because he wanted to be tested by a scientist, and Randi refused. (This claim may or may not be true.) I do feel that many people are sincere in their beliefs, they make no attempt to "cheat", but who think that the test offered by Randi isn't a fair or reasonable test of their abilities. Randi is not noted for his patience or his negotiation skills, and someone with a genuine claim might find themselves unable to negotiate a satisfactory test.

Those are the facts.

Sez you. They are YOUR vesion of the facts, anyway.
 
This seems a little unfair. In the vast majority of these cases the claims should be fairly clear cut with quite a wide variety of testing protocols.

If they can dowse, they can dowse. If their rock melts ice, it melts ice. Yet again and again they are unwilling to use certain protocols.

If I had telikinetic ability, or the true ability to locate hidden water, or the gift to remote view objects, etc. I would not be worried about exact scientific methodology - if it works it works. It's strange they all get bogged down in the specific method of testing.

Sez you. They are YOUR vesion of the facts, anyway.
Well you can choose to disbelieve anything you are told, of course, but it doesn't really help you in learning anything new. If you don't believe the person who is in charge of administration for this site then you won't believe anyone. There's not much point in asking anyone any questions about this then.

I personally would have thought that common sense would indicate that for potential claimants to be admitting that specific protocols are their problem (as opposed to saying they were happy to be tested in any reasonable way - their gift is just THAT remarkable) is highly indicative. But I guess it's your point of view isn't it.

Maybe that's why James Randi's testing results reflect those of the scientific community and even the sensationalist media - no 'paranormal' claim has ever stood up to any serious rigorous testing.
 
KRAMER said:
At this moment, 77 applications remain open, although most of these are "inactive", meaning that applications were submitted, but then the applicants vanished after realizing that their claim will not stand up to scientific scrutiny.
Emphasis mine. How do you know this, if they didn't contact JREF to say "my claim will not stand up to scientific scrutiny, and I'm not going to contact you, nor reply to any further attempts to contact me"?

Seems to me alternate explanations for vanishings could include people's

Dying.
Being incarcerated.
Being committed to a nut house.
Moving and forgetting to tell JREF.
Simply having lost interest in magic gemstones and having moved on to remote viewing.
 
"Sez You?"

That's a fine accusation.

It's not a matter of SEZ ME.

It's a matter of SEZ THE CASE FILES.

You can come to JREF anytime you like (please call and let us know when you plan to visit so that we might receive you properly, or just pop in unannounced, if your suspicions require it)
and go through our case files. They are open to the public, and, on a more personal note, I am more than anxious to see people visit the JREF to see for themselves. Our doors are wide open, and they shall remain so. We welcome all inquirers.

Of course the people don't want my statements to be proven as being truthful, well, they won't ever be interested in physical proof, and you know something? Although this bugged me a lot upon my arrival here, I just accept it nowadays as "a given". I now view them as I view Creationists, UFO-logists, and people who claim to talk to the dead. They are either trying to delude others, or are self-deluded, and there's little real difference between the two groups. Neither has any use for the truth, so what can I possibly do to change that? Nothing, I've learned.

And unless I get a duly executed Challenge application and accompanying claim letter from them, I ignore them as I would the village idiot.

But, if you have doubt regarding my statements, you have the right to investigate. If you truly seek the truth, you will do so.
Come one, Come all !!!

If all you wish to do, on the other hand, is to make empty, baseless accusations on internet forums, we'll never see you at our door.

"If they can dowse, they can dowse. If their rock melts ice, it melts ice. Yet again and again they are unwilling to use certain protocols."

This sizes it up perfectly. I remind you, also, that by signing the application and sending it to JREF, the applicant agrees to abide by the Challenge rules and submit their claim to scientific scrutiny.

Only this morning I received the following statement from our ALIENROCKWHEREDIDITCOMEFROM.com applicant (after many long weeks of protocol negotiations) as his means of escaping the test and backing out of the Challenge:

"I will not allow a non scientist or a scientist with no experience in high energy radiation to conduct experiments on my gemstone."

Randi calls this The Escape Portal. I have learned that most applicants have one prepared and ready to go, should they find themselves unable to persuade us to test their claim using less-than-acceptable standards.

Keep in mind, also, that this applicant made numerous claims about the properties of his "gemstone" that he stated in his claim letter could be "verified under whatever conditions JREF requires."

This is par for the course, people. Once the applicant realizes that their claim won't withstand scientific scrutiny, they back out, and most of them back out in very similar fashions.

And as to another forum members' question...don't I wish that more credible claims were submitted, or is it satisfying to see one claim after another tumbling into the pit of failure?

YES, I wish we received claims by applicants who truly were anxious to be tested, and by applicants who might want to adhere to the agreement they entered into when signing their application, and submit their claim to scientific scrutiny.

And by the way, an investigator need not be an accredited scientist in order to apply scientific method to the testing procedure. All one needs is an understanding of the scientific method of inquiry, with an emphasis on the area of the specific claim they have been enlisted to test. Most "real" scientists know their field well enough to be less than interested in being bothered with 99% of the claims we receive here. Indeed, if dowsing has been tested without success thousands and thousands of times, why would some scientist, given the choice, chose to spend his Saturday afternoon in damp cornfield instead of with his children, or grandchildren, or beside his fireplace with a good book in hand?

And NO. It is NOT satisfying to me in any way whatsoever to see claims fail, or to see applicants refuse to be tested. In fact, in my many months here, I have seen ONE applicant tested, and this infuriates me. He performed worse than chance.

If you could be a fly on the wall here this morning, you'd have seen me storm into Randi's office with a copy of the email from Mr. AlienRock, loudly protesting the man's refusal to be tested, his massive file under my arm..."Look at what this man put us through in these last few weeks, and look at the manner in which he backed out of testing!"

I was livid.

Randi was entirely unphased. He's seen this thousands of times.
He just stared at me with a rather blank expression that seemed to say, "Tell me something I haven't heard before, please."

"But I want to see more people tested!", I yelled.

"But you won't", came Randi's calm, studied reply.

I left his office with my tail between my legs, more than just a little bit embarrassed over the fact that I continue to get so upset at something that I should be well used to by now.

Will I ever find a way to stop becoming so upset? I hope so.
Will I ever stop being disappointed when it does? I hope not.
Complacency just isn't my style.

And I will always, ALWAYS put my best efforts into negotiating an acceptable test protocol. I will bend the rules as far as they can be bent in my efforts to meet the applicants needs, but I can't break the rules. My goal is to see applicants proceed to testing.
Meeting that goal but once in nearly 6 months is a most serious thorn in my side, but I insist that the responsibility for that lies with the applicant, as the onus of PROOF sits entirely in their court, and not with JREF.

It is NOT JREF's job to disprove extraordinary claims. It is the applicant's job to PROVE it.

I'm not used to this stuff just yet (the disappointment, I mean), but I'm getting there.
 
Peter Morris said:
Really? If we asked the applicants we might get a different version of events. Perhaps they would say that Randi never offered them a scientific test protocol.
Why would he not offer them a scientific test protocol? Surely he wants the test results to be reliable and not subject to interpretation.

For example, one applicant claims that he dropped out because he wanted to be tested by a scientist, and Randi refused. (This claim may or may not be true.) I do feel that many people are sincere in their beliefs, they make no attempt to "cheat", but who think that the test offered by Randi isn't a fair or reasonable test of their abilities. Randi is not noted for his patience or his negotiation skills, and someone with a genuine claim might find themselves unable to negotiate a satisfactory test.

From the Application for Status of Claimant page of this website:
Applicants must state clearly what they claim as their special ability, and test procedures must be agreed upon by both parties before any testing will take place. All tests must be designed in such a way that the results are self-evident, and no judging process is required. We do not design the protocol independently of the applicant, who must provide clear guidelines so that the test may be properly set.
1. Applicant must state clearly in advance, and applicant and JREF will agree upon, what powers or abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed demonstration (so far as time, location and other variables are concerned) and what will constitute both a positive and a negative result. This is the primary and most important of these rules.
12. EVERY APPLICANT MUST AGREE UPON WHAT WILL CONSTITUTE A CONCLUSION THAT, ON THE OCCASION OF THE FORMAL TEST, HE OR SHE DID OR DID NOT DEMONSTRATE THE CLAIMED ABILITY OR POWER.
Please be advised that several applicants have suffered great personal embarrassment after failing these tests. I strongly advise you to conduct proper double-blind tests of any ability you believe you can demonstrate, before attempting to undergo a testing for this prize. This has saved me and many claimants much time and work, by showing that the powers were quite imaginary on the part of the would-be claimant.
 
It's nice to finally see some details (in one place) of who's doing (or trying to do) what. Thanks, Kramer!

Any idea if there's going to be an archive of past applicants available at any point?


(Edited to add, after just reading your last post: available to view without me having to drag my tightfisted carcass across to Florida, that is ;) )
 
For example, one applicant claims that he dropped out because he wanted to be tested by a scientist,

I'll bet he does; scientists, the claimants know, are just about the easiest people to fool with crude magic tricks, since they are not trained to detect them. They are used to dealing with nature, which doesn't cheat, not with people, who do.

What needs to be scientific--and is--is the protocol of the test, which is what precisely what Randi offers: a protocol that makes sure a positive result would be genuine, not due to trickery. A test need not be administered by someone with a Ph.D. to be a scientific test. In fact, it is precisely the fact that Randi is a magician that makes a test he designs scientific, by excluding the possiblity of chearting.

The constant sneer, "I want to be tested by a scientist, Randi is just a magician!" really means, "I want to be teste by someone who's easy to fool with crude magic tricks, not by someone who's hard to fool that way!"

What these guys want is the usual: a test their rules and Randi's (or, rather, JREF's) money. They want Randi to risk $1,000,000 on a test where they get to determine who will test them? No way, Jose...
 
KRAMER said:
In fact, in my many months here, I have seen ONE applicant tested, and this infuriates me. He performed worse than chance.
If he can do this consistently, he might reapply with the negative of his ability, right?
 
Call from Philip Morris

Peter Morris said:
. . . we might get a different version of events. Perhaps they would say . . . . (This claim may or may not be true.) . . . .someone with a genuine claim might find themselves unable to negotiate. . . . Sez you. . . .

Might, perhaps, may or may not be true, sez you. That summarizes one believers' response to dud challenges. No, I think that summarizes -all- believers' beliefs.
 
Yes, I think many skeptics would be quite excited to see even one of these magical, mystical powers actually work. I would be willing to change my world view if any of it were proven to be true.
 
alfaniner said:
Yes, I think many skeptics would be quite excited to see even one of these magical, mystical powers actually work. I would be willing to change my world view if any of it were proven to be true.

That's the essence of my favourite Saganism: that man was both more passionate about the idea of aliens than most UFO nuts, and more impressively and credibly skeptical about alien visitation than most scoffers.

I think that many skeptics started out credulous, and remain enchanted by the possibility of extravagant natural phenomena. My adolescence was nothing but one disappointment after another as I realized that I would never be able to levitate or read minds. Bummer, dude. What's left of that sense of awe and wonder? An enduring fascination with real miracles, the marvels of nature. Yet I would still love to see someone bend a spoon.

My point: skeptics are not necessarily biased against extraordinary claims, and we demand extraordinary evidence almost reluctantly. We want to believe, too -- but only if there's something real to believe in!
 
OK, folks. I have some good news, and some bad news.

First, the Bad News:
The actual "Challenge Archive" of the JREF website (which I had announced months ago and had been promising you'd see within the coming weeks) has been postponed once again, in favor several other new additions and improvements to the JREF website, whose priority I must agree with. They include a search-engine database within the site that will allow anyone who logs in to access expanded definitions and links regarding all things paranormal, historical figures, phenomenon both imagined and real, etc...

This basically will amount to nothing less than an online version of Randi's Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds and Hoaxes of the Occult & Supernatural...only much, much larger and much more in-depth. Work on this has already begun - a HUGE job. It will be well worth the time and work invested, I'm sure.

Actually, it's difficult to see this as "bad news", no matter how you look at it, but it does postpone the Challenge Archive with some significance, sadly.

And now, the Good News:
A new, ongoing Challenge Thread is NOW being constructed, which I will personally administer.

From there, I will make daily postings, fully informing all forum members who care to keep tabs on the state of things atop the Challenge Desk, with as much detail as I can find the time to offer, regarding Challenge "inquiries" (meaning emails and letters inquiring about the Challenge and offering informal claims), duly executed Challenge applications and accompanying claim letters received, applications accepted and rejected, up-to-date status reports on preliminary test negotiations, and forthcoming test dates.

Although this will not serve as a means for interested parties to peruse past applications (or testing that has already occured), it will however provide specific data on the present goings-on, which I believe will be a welcome addition to the JREF forum, and which I hope will provide some small consolation for those patiently waiting for the Challenge Archive itself.

I will make an announcement here as soon as it goes up, which ought to be within a day or so.
 

Back
Top Bottom