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Certifying the Vote.

angrysoba said:
Let's see, a true believer Trumper and Qanon nutjob decides to storm the building in which the Secret Service are protecting Vice-President Pence....

Gets shot dead.

Darwin Award?

https://darwinawards.com/slush/submit_story.html
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I wonder why the emphasis on Pence and Secret Service. Not picking on you. That theme has popped up several places.

The shooting occurred in the Speakers Lobby, which is a corridor at the back entrance to the House chamber. At the time the Capitol was stormed, VP Pence was in the Senate chamber. It's unlikely the guard, or policeman, who shot the woman was part of VP Pence's protection detail. The guard/policeman would have been protecting the Representatives in the House chamber.

Which still makes her a candidate for a Darwin Award.
 
Meadmaker said:
I wonder why the emphasis on Pence and Secret Service. Not picking on you. That theme has popped up several places.

...snip...
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One would assume because people had to know that there would be secret service personnel on duty and it is a simple, easy to understand way of pointing that out.
 
Meadmaker said:
I wonder why the emphasis on Pence and Secret Service. Not picking on you. That theme has popped up several places.

The shooting occurred in the Speakers Lobby, which is a corridor at the back entrance to the House chamber. At the time the Capitol was stormed, VP Pence was in the Senate chamber. It's unlikely the guard, or policeman, who shot the woman was part of VP Pence's protection detail. The guard/policeman would have been protecting the Representatives in the House chamber.

Which still makes her a candidate for a Darwin Award.
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It makes for a better story.
 
Again is "Nobody told me that trying to force my way into the Capital would have consequences!?" really a river we need to navigate?
 
Meadmaker said:
I wonder why the emphasis on Pence and Secret Service. Not picking on you. That theme has popped up several places. The shooting occurred in the Speakers Lobby, which is a corridor at the back entrance to the House chamber. At the time the Capitol was stormed, VP Pence was in the Senate chamber. It's unlikely the guard, or policeman, who shot the woman was part of VP Pence's protection detail. The guard/policeman would have been protecting the Representatives in the House chamber.

Which still makes her a candidate for a Darwin Award.
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Well, the emphasis on Pence may have been because Trump was angry with Pence for not agreeing to basically make Trump the winner in the count. This is what Trump was repeatedly calling for.

In fact, were not some of the crowd yelling that they wanted him? (Maybe I misread this or this was fog of war stuff).

Either way, Pence was a target of them, and was in the vicinity. So too would be the Secret Service.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Yeah are we seriously debating about whether or not trying to storm your way into Congress should be met with deadly force?

None of them should have made it past that first door alive and the fact that any of them did is a disgrace to the most basic idea of "security."
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The color of their skin probably had something to do with it.

And then there's rioters taking selfies with cops. The cop's badge number is in the picture, he's screwed.
 

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shemp said:
The color of their skin probably had something to do with it.

And then there's rioters taking selfies with cops. The cop's badge number is in the picture, he's screwed.
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Not hardly. I predict no serious repercussions for the officer.
 
Well yeah that's why there was such a change in the situation when they got to the inner part of the Capital and were dealing with Secret Service / Some other security force that actually gave a crap and showed up to work.
 
angrysoba said:
Well, the emphasis on Pence may have been because Trump was angry with Pence for not agreeing to basically make Trump the winner in the count. This is what Trump was repeatedly calling for.

In fact, were not some of the crowd yelling that they wanted him? (Maybe I misread this or this was fog of war stuff).

Either way, Pence was a target of them, and was in the vicinity. So too would be the Secret Service.
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I suppose Pence was one target. I'm sure Nancy Pelosi was another. I doubt that mobs are all that discriminating in their targeting anyway.

I just think it's interesting that several posts earlier referred to the likelihood that a Secret Service agent was the person who shot the woman. That seems pretty unlikely to me. The Vice President was on the opposite side of the building at the time. He was only in "the vicinity" if everyone in the building was in the vicinity.

I think there's a certain mystique about the Secret Service that sounds more impressive than Capitol Police or whatever other security detail is stationed near the entrance to the House chamber.

In terms of understanding what happened, it isn't critical to know which contingent of armed security people the shooter happened to report to. We know that the mob was trying to break into the corridor immediately outside the chamber of the House of Representatives, when lots of Representatives were inside. Shooting one of them seems pretty reasonable to me, and from the opposite perspective, it seems like the mob members ought to have realized this was a likely outcome.

I'm fairly confident that an inquiry will clear the shooter of any wrongdoing, regardless of what sort of uniform he was wearing.
 
Meadmaker said:
I suppose Pence was one target. I'm sure Nancy Pelosi was another. I doubt that mobs are all that discriminating in their targeting anyway.

I just think it's interesting that several posts earlier referred to the likelihood that a Secret Service agent was the person who shot the woman. That seems pretty unlikely to me. The Vice President was on the opposite side of the building at the time. He was only in "the vicinity" if everyone in the building was in the vicinity.

I think there's a certain mystique about the Secret Service that sounds more impressive than Capitol Police or whatever other security detail is stationed near the entrance to the House chamber.

In terms of understanding what happened, it isn't critical to know which contingent of armed security people the shooter happened to report to. We know that the mob was trying to break into the corridor immediately outside the chamber of the House of Representatives, when lots of Representatives were inside. Shooting one of them seems pretty reasonable to me, and from the opposite perspective, it seems like the mob members ought to have realized this was a likely outcome.

I'm fairly confident that an inquiry will clear the shooter of any wrongdoing, regardless of what sort of uniform he was wearing.
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I don't really think it matters which they were.
 
I think their "target" (in as much as the had one) was the votes themselves, the boxes of official ballots that were taken off the floor at the last minute.
 
Darat said:
Or it simply and quickly explains why the mob was stupid to not consider they could face death if they invaded.
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Just pointing out that newspapers would prefer the Secret Service angle.

But yes, it was stupid. Anyone intending to storm a government building and try to overturn an election by force should be prepared to die. And once they ARE ready to die, they should consider what they are about to do and whether this really is the thing they want to die for.

I doubt any of the people yesterday were actually willing to die for Trump. (God help them if I'm wrong.)

However, for the sake of accuracy, the police chief did confirm that it was a member of Capitol Police:

Police have not yet confirmed Babbitt’s identity or confirmed details about how she was shot. The woman was shot by U.S. Capitol Police, D.C. Police Chief Robert J. Contee III told reporters on Wednesday.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/07/ashli-babbitt-dead-capitol-riot/
 
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TragicMonkey said:
What are the odds that her family will try to sue over it? Will they sue the security for doing their job, or Trump for causing the situation? Perhaps they'll sue Pence for not surrendering himself to the mob.
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They will sue Biden for not losing the election, which would have prevented all of this. Biden will be sued by the lawyers of the Former President Shoe Repair and Kindergarten.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Again is "Nobody told me that trying to force my way into the Capital would have consequences!?" really a river we need to navigate?
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It is according to the guy who was on TV that witnessed the shooting. They formed a mob, stormed the Capitol, got past armed guards, broke through scaffolding, busted out windows, went past flash grenades and tear gas, illegally went into the Capitol building, broke interiors windows, ignored warnings from law enforcement and then those dirty rotten pigs had the gall to actually defend the property and the lives of the members of Congress.
 
Meadmaker said:
I just think it's interesting that several posts earlier referred to the likelihood that a Secret Service agent was the person who shot the woman. That seems pretty unlikely to me.
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I read one unconfirmed report that she was shot by the people in the widely spread picture of men pointing guns at a window barricaded by a piece of furniture. Those were men in suits, so it likes like they are probably Secret Service.

But I think those reports are just pieced together from that picture and reports that she was shot trying to get through an interior window and those are probably not actually connected events.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I think their "target" (in as much as the had one) was the votes themselves, the boxes of official ballots that were taken off the floor at the last minute.
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I don't think they had a target. I don't think they planned on storming the Capitol building until Trump told them to march to the Capitol and then once they were there they decided they should bust their way in because...they didn't really know why, but it just seemed like the thing to do.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
It is according to the guy who was on TV that witnessed the shooting. They formed a mob, stormed the Capitol, got past armed guards, broke through scaffolding, busted out windows, went past flash grenades and tear gas, illegally went into the Capitol building, broke interiors windows, ignored warnings from law enforcement and then those dirty rotten pigs had the gall to actually defend the property and the lives of the members of Congress.
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Broadly speaking, this isn't accurate. If specifically the shooter was not authorized to shoot by use of force at that moment, I will then have a problem with his actions.
 
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