I am always amazed, in discussions like these, that people feel the need to point out there are no fat people in famines. Are we seriously suggesting that a permanent state of famine is a desirable thing?
The reason things like that are pointed out is to establish that when people are forced to modify their behavior and have no avenue for cheating, they don't get fat. In developed nations, most people can easily afford excess calories (maybe not the healthiest, but still). Likewise, they can afford to use other fuel sources (electricity, gasoline) to do work that otherwise their bodies would have to do.
Energy consumption and energy expenditure are for the most part choices. It's important that this remain at the center of an discussion about weight control.
I know people who have to keep themselves on an intake lower than the UN definition of starvation just in order not to gain.
For this to be true, it would have to mean that the vast majority of the population is horribly inefficient at extracting energy from food and/or uses energy very wastefully. On top of that these people would be in a constant struggle to maintain nutrition, which would mean lots of supplements at the very least.
I posted a study in another thread, but the gist of it was that a scientist devised a method for getting reliable estimates of food intake and exercise without his subjects knowing. Turns out they underreported food intake and overreported exercise. When he made them aware that he could verify their answers, the reports began to match the objective data. I've also assisted people in losing (and gaining) weight. Invariably the heavier people ate more than they realized and exercised less. The skinny people were the reverse.
My little cousin was born fat, was a fat kid and a fat teen. When she was fifteen she made an effort on her own by swapping all her snacks for fruit. She gained weight. There must be more going on here than simple in-out. Like biology perhaps.
The laws of physics don't bend for biology.
Why do you think eating fruit instead of a "snack" should make her lose weight? Fruit has calories. Now, had she substituted a brisk walk around the block for each snack, what do you think would have happened?
I am also nonplussed whenever people discussing this topic refers to the laws of physics, as if the energy _must_ be either absorbed or used just because it can't be destroyed. It doesn't seem to be a possibility that some people poop out a lot more of the calories ingested than others do. Or that some people lose energy as more heat than others do. Or that there are people who can be on a huge calorie surplus without gaining - but it seems to be impossible that there would be others who function the opposite way.
Sure, there are going to be differences from person to person. I haven't seen anyone say otherwise. In fact, I and others have talked about ways to alter your metabolism. But at the end of the day each person needs to tailor their energy intake and output to their own body.
When we reach the intake levels where everyone, including those with really slow metabolism, will definitely lose body fat - then we are at a level that at least I would be uncomfortable demanding that someone else live on. Would I do it myself? Would I accept that I had to live on 400kcal/day for the rest of my life? I'm not sure I would.
This "really slow metabolism" stuff is pretty much a myth as best as I can tell. Who are these people living on 400 calories per day to avoid getting fat? Do they exercise ever?
Fat people aren't stupid, and I fail to believe that so many people are "just too weak willed". I am less able to resist the carrot cake and the PBJs than my fat friend. By every account my will is weaker than hers. Yet somehow I go free, just because it doesn't stick. That's not fair, and I wish people would try to be a little more nuanced about it.
So, are you arguing that everything about the two of you is equal except for the occasional slice of carrot cake? Really? You're the same size with the same muscle mass? You exercise the same amount every day? You walk the same amount? You consume
exactly the same number of calories?
I already know the answer to that is no, because your friend is fat and you say that it doesn't stick to you. That means that for an extended period of her life, your friend consumed excess calories and stored it as fat. These days you may consume similar amounts of food and exercise similar amounts. Or maybe you eat a little bit more and because you're in better shape, you burn off the excess calories. Basically, what you're saying is that these days you both maintain your weight! What you're missing is that your friend has to run a deficit for a long period of time to undo the weight gain.
As a parallell to this mindset: I suffered for several years from really bad acne. I went through all the otc and then all the prescription treatments.
We don't need an analogy to understand body composition. If we did, acne would not be a good one.
I don't think we do any overweight or obese people any favours if we try to pretend like it's easy, or that the requirements that are enough for other people will necessarily be enough for them.
Who said it was easy? Nobody in this thread, that's for sure. Simple does not mean easy. It's simple to pull a car with a rope tied around your waist, but it ain't easy. And we've all said it varies by individual.
I'll tell you what doesn't help overweight or obese people: Moving the focus away from individual choices. The difficulty in making those choices will vary by person, but that's no reason to pretend they are no longer choices.
And I for one am not ready to request people to live a lifestyle I myself am not comfortable with. If I want them to do an hour of exercise every day, then I should first be ready to do that. In their shoes.
Who's "requesting" people to live certain lifestyles? If you want to lose weight, you need to do what you personally need to do. If you don't, you'll suffer health problems and a lot of people will find you physically unattractive. Some people will judge your moral character for choosing more food and less exercise than your body requires, especially in light of the negative consequences already described. That's just life. It's not a "request" that people behave a certain way.
From my perspective people
ask for help but don't like the answers. Even in this thread the OP was holding out for a "magic pill" or something.
