CCW holder killed reaching for ID.

[BrooklynBaby]

It turns out the cop who shot Castile wasn't Chinese after all; his lawyer says he is Mexican and he was reacting to the "presence of a gun", whatever that means.

"This is a tragic incident brought about by the officer having to react to the actions taken by Mr. Castile," Minneapolis attorney Thomas Kelly said Saturday. "This case has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the presence of a gun. Again, it has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with the presence of a gun."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-philando-castile-case-has-nothing-do-n606471

 

[Hlafordlaes]

It turns out the cop who shot Castile wasn't Chinese after all; his lawyer says he is Mexican and he was reacting to the "presence of a gun", whatever that means.

"This is a tragic incident brought about by the officer having to react to the actions taken by Mr. Castile," Minneapolis attorney Thomas Kelly said Saturday. "This case has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the presence of a gun. Again, it has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with the presence of a gun."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-philando-castile-case-has-nothing-do-n606471

Thank you for making a very good argument for abolition of the outdated and unnecessary 2nd Amendment.

 

[jimbob]

It turns out the cop who shot Castile wasn't Chinese after all; his lawyer says he is Mexican and he was reacting to the "presence of a gun", whatever that means.

"This is a tragic incident brought about by the officer having to react to the actions taken by Mr. Castile," Minneapolis attorney Thomas Kelly said Saturday. "This case has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the presence of a gun. Again, it has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with the presence of a gun."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-philando-castile-case-has-nothing-do-n606471

Thank you for making a very good argument for abolition of the outdated and unnecessary 2nd Amendment.

Yes, the presence of a gun that he had a permit for.

The second Amendment doesn't make one safer from the authorities, it just makes the authorities more trigger happy.

 

[Ranb]

He had been stopped 52 times previously and more than half the 86 violations against him had been dismissed.

That's a shocking number of dismissed charges.

From the link;

He was assessed at least $6,588 in fines and fees, although more than half of the total 86 violations were dismissed, court records show.

I can just imagine the radio call in prior to the shooting; "See what else we charge him with to enhance our revenue stream."
And then after the shooting; "WTF dude, where are we going to get money for more ammo?!"

Ranb

 

[jimbob]

Ranb, I did have a similar mental image

 

[Beelzebuddy]

"This is a tragic incident brought about by the officer having to react to the actions taken by Mr. Castile," Minneapolis attorney Thomas Kelly said Saturday. "This case has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the presence of a gun. Again, it has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with the presence of a gun."

Good try, but "tragic" is unnecessary, and "brought about by the officer" clearly indicates the officer played a major role. But extra points for the use of "presence of a gun" to imply that the gun itself had anything to do with it instead of the cop shooting as soon as the guy said "I have a gun-." Also, penalty for the use of the present tense when a shift to past tense would be justifiable.

7/10, would be involved in a related incident with again.

Reference: McSweeney's Guide to Ambiguous Grammar

 

[BrooklynBaby]

Good try, but "tragic" is unnecessary, and "brought about by the officer" clearly indicates the officer played a major role. But extra points for the use of "presence of a gun" to imply that the gun itself had anything to do with it instead of the cop shooting as soon as the guy said "I have a gun-." Also, penalty for the use of the present tense when a shift to past tense would be justifiable.

7/10, would be involved in a related incident with again.

Reference: McSweeney's Guide to Ambiguous Grammar

Do you have a source for this fascinating scenario? I don't know what actually happened, but I do know if it was me, and I had been pulled over by the police 52 times, I wouldn't have a handgun out where they could see it. This is just common sense. I keep my registration and insurance card in a little plastic envelope clipped to the sun visor so I don't have to reach into the glove compartment if I get pulled over. That's because there is usually a loaded gun in there.

 

[lionking]

Do you have a source for this fascinating scenario? I don't know what actually happened, but I do know if it was me, and I had been pulled over by the police 52 times, I wouldn't have a handgun out where they could see it. This is just common sense. I keep my registration and insurance card in a little plastic envelope clipped to the sun visor so I don't have to reach into the glove compartment if I get pulled over. That's because there is usually a loaded gun in there.

There is no evidence at all that the gun could be seen

 

[Dr.Sid]

It's not that complicated .. cops will never want you to handle the gun. If they feel the need, they will make you get out of the car and take the gun themselves off your body.
And since they never want people to handle the gun, if you do, it must be considered as possible attack. And you can't wait till the other person aims at you .. those are fractions of seconds .. and cops have no obligations to wait if you are going to shoot or not.
You got stopped by a cop and you touch your gun .. you will be shot. That's the risk of carrying a gun.

 

[lionking]

It's not that complicated .. cops will never want you to handle the gun. If they feel the need, they will make you get out of the car and take the gun themselves off your body.
And since they never want people to handle the gun, if you do, it must be considered as possible attack. And you can't wait till the other person aims at you .. those are fractions of seconds .. and cops have no obligations to wait if you are going to shoot or not.
You got stopped by a cop and you touch your gun .. you will be shot. That's the risk of carrying a gun.

Again, no evidence of this

 

[Giordano]

May I ask a question that really does not have a secret agenda or "gotcha!" goal? In an open carry state, what happens if the police stop you and you have a gun sitting on your lap as they approach your car? Is it illegal to have a gun openly exposed in such a fashion in these states (if so what exactly does open carry permit)? What are you supposed to tell the police officer as they approach your car? "Officer I have a gun in my lap" doesn't quite sound like the best approach to me...

 

[Giordano]

Do you have a source for this fascinating scenario? I don't know what actually happened, but I do know if it was me, and I had been pulled over by the police 52 times, I wouldn't have a handgun out where they could see it. This is just common sense. I keep my registration and insurance card in a little plastic envelope clipped to the sun visor so I don't have to reach into the glove compartment if I get pulled over. That's because there is usually a loaded gun in there.

Better reach for that registration and insurance slowly lest the police think that you have a gun in the visor:

https://www.amazon.com/Holster-holster-pockets-firearms-trigger/dp/B00HJZBB52

 

[Roger Ramjets]

You got stopped by a cop and you touch your gun .. you will be shot. That's the risk of carrying a gun.

No, the cop only has to think you touched your gun. In fact you don't even have to have a gun for the cop to think you are touching it.

So bottom line, if you are stopped by a cop then you can expect to be shot!

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Do you have a source for this fascinating scenario? I don't know what actually happened, but I do know if it was me, and I had been pulled over by the police 52 times, I wouldn't have a handgun out where they could see it. This is just common sense. I keep my registration and insurance card in a little plastic envelope clipped to the sun visor so I don't have to reach into the glove compartment if I get pulled over. That's because there is usually a loaded gun in there.

The cop didn't see the gun. He didn't touch the gun. He didn't reach for the gun. But the gun was present. So it involved the presence of the gun. Get it?

May I ask a question that really does not have a secret agenda or "gotcha!" goal? In an open carry state, what happens if the police stop you and you have a gun sitting on your lap as they approach your car? Is it illegal to have a gun openly exposed in such a fashion in these states (if so what exactly does open carry permit)? What are you supposed to tell the police officer as they approach your car? "Officer I have a gun in my lap" doesn't quite sound like the best approach to me...

The advice I've heard is to leave it strapped in a holster on your dashboard, so that it's a) immediately visible and b) not easily accessible without some involved reaching and unstrapping. It also helps a lot to not be black, and/or not meet a cop who'll interpret every twitch you make as "he's goin' for his gun, SHOOT HIM!"

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... I've been pulled over in Minnesota, Virginia, Florida, Idaho, Texas and Oklahoma.

This brings up one element of the story that, as a foreigner, I don't really have a grasp on. How common is it for a driver to be pulled over by the police in the US?

I've been driving in the UK for over 25 years and got stopped exactly once (by a cop standing in a bus shelter at the roadside, waiting to ticket miscreants like me who thought using 100 yards of empty bus lane to reach their turning was preferable to sitting in a traffic jam).

Anyway, my point is that I now gather the shot man had 52 previous traffic stops to his name, and Ranb describes having been stopped in six states. Just how regularly does the average US driver get pulled over?

 

[Beelzebuddy]

This brings up one element of the story that, as a foreigner, I don't really have a grasp on. How common is it for a driver to be pulled over by the police in the US?

I've been driving in the UK for over 25 years and got stopped exactly once (by a cop standing in a bus shelter at the roadside, waiting to ticket miscreants like me who thought using 100 yards of empty bus lane to reach their turning was preferable to sitting in a traffic jam).

Anyway, my point is that I now gather the shot man had 52 previous traffic stops to his name, and Ranb describes having been stopped in six states. Just how regularly does the average US driver get pulled over?

Fairly rarely, unless one drives aggressively, or is of the wrong race for their location. The slang term for the latter is a DWB, or "driving while black." Having over half of his citations overturned gives a good indication as to which category our good driver fell into.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Fairly rarely, unless one drives aggressively, or is of the wrong race for their location. The slang term for the latter is a DWB, or "driving while black." Having over half of his citations overturned gives a good indication as to which category our good driver fell into.

Thanks for that, though I'm still trying to interpret what counts as "fairly rarely". Would that be closer to "maybe once in a decade" or to "maybe once a year"?

 

[Ron Swanson]

...
That's a shocking number of dismissed charges.

Not really .. most people don't take their tickets to court ... as a teen I worked nightshift 1 and a half hours away ... and I drove like an idiot with $50 vehicles that should not have been on the road ...

.. I had time during the day and I took EVERY ticket to court ... I got 2/3ds dismissed .. and every ticket (but maybe 2 or 3) reduced the fine payable

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Thanks for that, though I'm still trying to interpret what counts as "fairly rarely". Would that be closer to "maybe once in a decade" or to "maybe once a year"?

Once a decade. I think I was last stopped in 2008, for a new law I didn't know about. And around 2000 before that, in a speed trap.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Just how regularly does the average US driver get pulled over?

Im in Canada and frankly have "not great driving skills" .. I've even been stopped in a Walmart parking (stone sober at 10:00am) to see if I was drunk driving

And I get stopped about an average of 2 times a year.