Gord_in_Toronto
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Merged Catholic Priest uses wrong word in baptism invalidates decades of baptisms
- Thread starter arthwollipot
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- baptism catholic church
Cat Not Included
Critical Thinker
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Is there, like, ANY introspection going on here at all when saying something like that?
Ethan Thane Athen
Illuminator
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My first thought: Ha, ha ha, what a load of crap.
My second thought: Presumably some may have already died - can they be baptised posthumously or are they doomed for eternity / until judgement day? Would that be limbo or hell? I had a feeling children who die unbaptised go to limbo (purgatory?) in one of the sets of fairy stories until judgement day. I lose track of the varieties of nonsense I'm afraid...
ETA - said 'knowledge' comes from what a priest actually said to my Mother-in-Law when her first child died. She had said something about her being in heaven and he forcefully corrected her to point out that since she had died before they'd had a chance to baptise her, she'd be in purgatory not heaven. Apparently my Father-in-Law had to be forcibly restrained from clocking him one...
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Thermal
August Member
I wonder what the words are that were so wrong as to damn the recipient's soul to eternal damnation? Did the priest make finger scare quotes when he said Jesus or something? Or was it more like "by not wiping away this water, you have read and accept the terms and conditions of the Catholic church"? Or maybe "you now owe a tenth of your money and every last drop of sperm to us, bitch"?
The Priest in question said, during the Rites, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." instead of "correct" wording of "We baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
The rub, as it were, is that the Priest isn't the one doing the baptizing, Jesus is, so by saying "I" instead of "We" he baptized the babies, not Jesus.
Basically linguistically he was taking credit for the Baptism, not doing it in Jesus's name.
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Thermal
August Member
******* seriously, man? I specifically recall each and every baptism I've ever seen using the first person singular.
Whelp, I was going to hell anyway. More company, I guess.
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
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Don't the Mormons posthumously baptize people all the time, regardless of whether they were Mormons or not in life?
I mean, it's a "my dinosaur eats force-field dogs" kind of thing.
That's how all the news reports I've read have explained it.
It's all gibberish to me, it's watching the news non-ironically go "“It's leviOsa, not levioSA!" as far as I'm concerned, but that's seems to be the issue.
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
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"I" is the correct word, "We" is the wrong word this priest used. Can't let on that "we" humans created all this nonsense.
Thermal
August Member
Yeah, if a supernatural being is presiding (if conspicuously undetectable), shouldn't the priest say "He" or "It" baptizes you? Pretty presumptuous to cut himself in on the credits.
Or maybe "They" baptize you? Both a nod to the Trinity, and very non-gender-assigning.
Meadmaker
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I'm trying to remember my Catholic upbringing, and what it would mean, spiritually, to have an "invalid baptism".
Ok...after typing the above, I decided to do a few seconds of googling:
https://www.catholic.com/qa/is-baptism-necessary-for-salvation-or-not
Basically, here's what I take from it.
You have to be baptised in order to get into heaven. However, that only applies to people that know they have to be baptised. In practice, that means Catholics. They're the only ones that really understand the importance of baptism, so they're the only ones who have to be baptised.
I do remember from Catechism class that there were two other kinds of baptism besides baptism of water. There was "baptism by blood", which was that anyone who was killed because they were Catholic is automatically considered baptised, and "baptism of desire", which was basically anyone who sincerely wanted to live a good life was considered (by God) to be baptised even if they weren't Christian.
I'm sure that interpretation has changed over the centuries. Back in the Reformation days I'm sure that Catholic theologians would have said Protestants should have known better and would go to Hell for not being baptised.
Anyway, applying the "only people who know they have to be baptised" rule, I think what it means is that all the people who he baptised "incorrectly", but who have subsequently died, died with the benefits of baptism because, as far as they knew, they were baptised. However, those who are alive today and have learned that their baptism was invalid because the magic words were wrong now know that they aren't "really" baptised, and so they need to seek out baptism.
And if they don't, they'll spend eternity in a lake of fire, because God ain't gonna put up with that kind of crap.
I was 21 years old when I gave up Catholicism, and belief in God with it. It's almost scary to me that there was a time when I would have looked up the answer to something about an "invalid baptism", and thought it actually mattered.
Ok...after typing the above, I decided to do a few seconds of googling:
https://www.catholic.com/qa/is-baptism-necessary-for-salvation-or-not
Basically, here's what I take from it.
You have to be baptised in order to get into heaven. However, that only applies to people that know they have to be baptised. In practice, that means Catholics. They're the only ones that really understand the importance of baptism, so they're the only ones who have to be baptised.
I do remember from Catechism class that there were two other kinds of baptism besides baptism of water. There was "baptism by blood", which was that anyone who was killed because they were Catholic is automatically considered baptised, and "baptism of desire", which was basically anyone who sincerely wanted to live a good life was considered (by God) to be baptised even if they weren't Christian.
I'm sure that interpretation has changed over the centuries. Back in the Reformation days I'm sure that Catholic theologians would have said Protestants should have known better and would go to Hell for not being baptised.
Anyway, applying the "only people who know they have to be baptised" rule, I think what it means is that all the people who he baptised "incorrectly", but who have subsequently died, died with the benefits of baptism because, as far as they knew, they were baptised. However, those who are alive today and have learned that their baptism was invalid because the magic words were wrong now know that they aren't "really" baptised, and so they need to seek out baptism.
And if they don't, they'll spend eternity in a lake of fire, because God ain't gonna put up with that kind of crap.
I was 21 years old when I gave up Catholicism, and belief in God with it. It's almost scary to me that there was a time when I would have looked up the answer to something about an "invalid baptism", and thought it actually mattered.
Thermal
August Member
I'll save you a seat in Hell, fellow heathen.
Carrot Flower King
Janitor of Lunacy
Yes. And this one makes it two too many.
Naaaaaah, we need a third one! Just to be consistent with the patterns'n'that.
TurkeysGhost
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https://www.npr.org/2022/02/15/1080829813/priest-resigns-baptisms
Catholicism nerds contenders for most annoying fanbase contest.
catsmate
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Baptism, Confession, Communion and Confirmation are needed for a RCC marriage. Though a bishop can grant an exemption for Confirmation.
Of course baptism is the one sacrament that can be performed by anyone (you do not have to be catholic, you do have to be baptised). I have a friend who is a neonatologist who regularly does quick baptisms, pending the arrival of a priest. Her worry has always been that she might get thrown of her protestant church if they knew how many catholics she had baptised.
catsmate
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Limbo has been abolished. Also there is the doctrine of 'Baptism of Desire'.
Thermal
August Member
For a Catholic matrimonial mass, I think. My Catholic wife and I were married by an Irish priest in her home base American Catholic church, and the priest was fine with me being an agnostic (as I self described at the time). Just didn't have the crackers and shots for Communion during the ceremony.