Capitol assault was orchestrated by ANTIFA

Really?!

Craig4 said:
Resume said:
It's being reported at a number of outlets, so it's cool. I laughed out loud at this moron; he perfectly represents the average maga dead-ender: too stupid to realize how stupid he is. I wonder if he is one of those idiot Trump supporters who didn't even bother to vote?
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It's so funny. I hope he dies in prison.
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Sorry about spoiling your mirth, but I find it grotesque. Yes, there are MAGA morons, and there are many of them, but unlike their leaders they have been kept ignorant. That they are ignorant to this extent is a tragedy, not something that should make us cheerful. At the same time, we have educated members of the MAGA cult in this forum, who are advocating the rights of these people to be this stupid and their own right to tell these people the lies that contribute to making them this stupid: Congress taking on 1st Am by proxy

Unlike most of the ISF members of the MAGA cult, many of the morons that make you laugh have the disadvantage of having had no real education to speak of, which is an actual tragedy. ISF's own MAGA cultists don't have that excuse. They want the MAGA morons to stay ignorant because it makes them more susceptible to the MAGA lies.

So stop laughing and thus behaving as the arrogant elite that the morons are fed up with. When you do this, you help the educated MAGA guys to present themselves as their allies because they want to help them stay stupid and ignorant and do so by spreading their lies.


ETA: Stop and consider what it would have required for you to have become one of them: uneducated, unemployed poor parents, growing up in a bad neighborhood with bad schools, not having had access to the kind of books that you have been reading - or the kind of people who recommended them to you, a fundamentalist religious upbringing, etc. All kinds of circumstances have contributed to making them the kind of people they are and some ISF members are working to keep it that way.
 
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dann said:
......
ETA: Stop and consider what it would have required for you to have become one of them: uneducated, unemployed poor parents, growing up in a bad neighborhood with bad schools, not having had access to the kind of books that you have been reading - or the kind of people who recommended them to you, a fundamentalist religious upbringing, etc. All kinds of circumstances have contributed to making them the kind of people they are and some ISF members are working to keep it that way.
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It is a terrible, dangerous mistake to imagine that the MAGA crowd are uneduated bumpkins. Cruz and Hawley are graduates of Harvard and Yale law schools. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a millionaire contractor. Many of the people arrested for invading the Capitol have good jobs or own businesses.
Third, the demographic profile of the suspected Capitol rioters is different from that of past right-wing extremists. The average age of the arrestees we studied is 40. Two-thirds are 35 or older, and 40 percent are business owners or hold white-collar jobs. Unlike the stereotypical extremist, many of the alleged participants in the Capitol riot have a lot to lose. They work as CEOs, shop owners, doctors, lawyers, IT specialists, and accountants. Strikingly, court documents indicate that only 9 percent are unemployed.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...l-rioters-arent-like-other-extremists/617895/

The MAGA crowd is not a bunch of downtrodden peasants. If that were true, it would be easy for the dominant class to squash them. But these people are part of the dominant class. 74 million of them voted for Trump, 10 million more than in 2016. They are all around us, and they have enormous power.
 
dann said:
Sorry about spoiling your mirth . . .
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Oh, you couldn't do that. I will always find it breathtakingly amusing when these insurrectionists out themselves and assist in their own apprehension and prosecution.
 
Bob001 said:
It is a terrible, dangerous mistake to imagine that the MAGA crowd are uneduated bumpkins. Cruz and Hawley are graduates of Harvard and Yale law schools. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a millionaire contractor. Many of the people arrested for invading the Capitol have good jobs or own businesses.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...l-rioters-arent-like-other-extremists/617895/

The MAGA crowd is not a bunch of downtrodden peasants. If that were true, it would be easy for the dominant class to squash them. But these people are part of the dominant class. 74 million of them voted for Trump, 10 million more than in 2016. They are all around us, and they have enormous power.
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Indeed. These folks have positions of power and influence, yet they act as of they're the oppressed. Oh woe is them, these downtrodden CEOs, entitled evangelical christians, these cynical, carreer snowflake politicians.
 
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Yeah, people mostly are what their brains are plus their surroundings so a lot of these folks are just some amount of predisposition + good old GIGO. You still have to take it seriously so that the influence of society isn’t just more of that garbage, but at the end of the day human mayhem is just a more complicated version of a dangerous rock-fall.

So no I don’t wish anyone ill will. I just want to see someone put up some erosion barriers or something.
 
Resume said:
Oh, you couldn't do that. I will always find it breathtakingly amusing when these insurrectionists out themselves and assist in their own apprehension and prosecution.
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Just as the Trump camp distanced themselves from the insurrectionists and tried to save Trump by saying those people acted on their own, contrary to his wishes, now a fair amount of the now-300 defendants are trying to say they were brainwashed by Trump and the far-right media and that they're all very sorry now. So if it's not Trump's fault because his followers are irrational and deluded, and it's not the followers' fault because they were mesmerized by a charismatic movement, whose fault is it?

Oh, right: "Antifa." It used to be that putting a name on your enemy was a good way of galvanizing opposition to it. Now you don't need the enemy, just the name.
 
Bob001 said:
It is a terrible, dangerous mistake to imagine that the MAGA crowd are uneduated bumpkins. Cruz and Hawley are graduates of Harvard and Yale law schools. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a millionaire contractor. Many of the people arrested for invading the Capitol have good jobs or own businesses.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...l-rioters-arent-like-other-extremists/617895/

The MAGA crowd is not a bunch of downtrodden peasants. If that were true, it would be easy for the dominant class to squash them. But these people are part of the dominant class. 74 million of them voted for Trump, 10 million more than in 2016. They are all around us, and they have enormous power.
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That only (!) nine percent of people participating in the riot are unemployed is not surprising since it is not free of charge to travel to Washington for most people. What you don't seem to understand in spite of my attempts to make it apparent is that there is a hell of a difference between Cruz, Hawley and Greene and the MAGA crowd, i.e. between leaders and followers. You didn't see those three march in front of (or in) the crowd of the Capitol rioters.
They were the people who incited MAGA crowd, not the ones who broke the windows.

I guess you could call one of the members of the crowd a businesswoman:
Babbitt was a small business owner and self-described libertarian. She owned a San Diego-based business, Fowler’s Pool Service and Supply, according to California business records. Her LinkedIn profile lists her as the company owner since May 2017.
'She was deep into it': Ashli Babbitt, killed in Capitol riot, was devoted conspiracy theorist (Guardian, Jan. 9, 2021)
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But she died in debt. She was no heiress like Greene or a 'let's-go-to-Cancun-for-the-weekend tourist like Ted Cruz, so your three named leaders of the movement only serve to make the contrast to the MAGA crowd obvious.

And while the rioters are being prosecuted, the instigators don't seem to suffer any repercussions, and they are the ones who have "enormous power". The ones in the crowd have diddly-squat.
 
JayUtah said:
Just as the Trump camp distanced themselves from the insurrectionists and tried to save Trump by saying those people acted on their own, contrary to his wishes, now a fair amount of the now-300 defendants are trying to say they were brainwashed by Trump and the far-right media and that they're all very sorry now. So if it's not Trump's fault because his followers are irrational and deluded, and it's not the followers' fault because they were mesmerized by a charismatic movement, whose fault is it?
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The fault is obviously in both groups. What they have in common is the ideology, the American Dream, which works wonders for the rich:
I am where I am because I am such a marvelous specimen.
It doesn't work as well for the poor:
I am not where I am supposed to be, so I'm on the lookout for the people who have cheated me out of the success that is my birthright as an American: the foreigners and their helpers, the unamerican libruls and their Antifa helpers!

As in all cults, the instigators benefit from the delusion. Their followers don't.
 
dann said:
Really?!




Sorry about spoiling your mirth, but I find it grotesque. Yes, there are MAGA morons, and there are many of them, but unlike their leaders they have been kept ignorant. That they are ignorant to this extent is a tragedy, not something that should make us cheerful. At the same time, we have educated members of the MAGA cult in this forum, who are advocating the rights of these people to be this stupid and their own right to tell these people the lies that contribute to making them this stupid: Congress taking on 1st Am by proxy

Unlike most of the ISF members of the MAGA cult, many of the morons that make you laugh have the disadvantage of having had no real education to speak of, which is an actual tragedy. ISF's own MAGA cultists don't have that excuse. They want the MAGA morons to stay ignorant because it makes them more susceptible to the MAGA lies.

So stop laughing and thus behaving as the arrogant elite that the morons are fed up with. When you do this, you help the educated MAGA guys to present themselves as their allies because they want to help them stay stupid and ignorant and do so by spreading their lies.


ETA: Stop and consider what it would have required for you to have become one of them: uneducated, unemployed poor parents, growing up in a bad neighborhood with bad schools, not having had access to the kind of books that you have been reading - or the kind of people who recommended them to you, a fundamentalist religious upbringing, etc. All kinds of circumstances have contributed to making them the kind of people they are and some ISF members are working to keep it that way.
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So? He's just a Trump supporter. I'll never give a **** about their kind.
 
My point is that they are not one kind. Too bad that you can't or won't distinguish between followers and leaders in the cult. The distinction makes a conversation with the former easier. You may even succeed in convincing some of them that they are being led by elitists who don't have their best interest at heart.
But you seem to prefer your elitist mirth.
 
A cult is defined by de-legitimatizing any non-positive information about itself.
Cult members who don't seek out neutral information themselves are beyond reach.

And any attempts to excuse the behavior cult members just adds to their sense of righteousness.

No, the Trump Train must crash and burn before there is any sense to look for survivors in the wreckage.
 
How Pro-Trump Forces Pushed a Lie About Antifa at the Capitol Riot (New York Times)

But even as Americans watched live images of rioters wearing MAGA hats and carrying Trump flags breach the Capitol — egged on only minutes earlier by a president who falsely denounced a rigged election and exhorted his followers to fight for justice — history was being rewritten in real time.
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Nearly two months after the attack, the claim that antifa was involved has been repeatedly debunked by federal authorities, but it has hardened into gospel among hard-line Trump supporters, by voters and sanctified by elected officials in the party. More than half of Trump voters in a Suffolk University/USA Today poll said that the riot was “mostly an antifa-inspired attack.” At Senate hearings last week focused on the security breakdown at the Capitol, Senator Ron Johnson, a Wisconsin Republican, repeated the falsehood that “fake Trump protesters” fomented the violence.

For those who hoped Mr. Trump’s don’t-believe-your-eyes tactics might fade after his defeat, the mainstreaming of the antifa conspiracy is a sign that truth remains a fungible concept among his most ardent followers. Buoyed by a powerful right-wing media network that had just spent eight weeks advancing Mr. Trump’s baseless claims of voter fraud, pro-Trump Republicans have succeeded in warping their voters’ realities, exhibiting sheer gall as they seek to minimize a violent riot perpetrated by their own supporters.
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A lie that outraced the truth

A review of media activity in the immediate aftermath of the Jan. 6 riot reveals just how quickly the right-wing media machine, first online and then on radio and cable TV, advanced the fiction about antifa’s supposed involvement.

The conspiracy gained new momentum after The Washington Times, a right-wing newspaper, published an online article shortly before 2:30 p.m. claiming that a facial recognition firm had identified antifa activists in the crowd at the Capitol. The newspaper corrected the article less than 24 hours later, after its claims were proved false — but not before the story made an enormous impact. The article eventually amassed 360,000 likes and shares on Facebook, according to CrowdTangle, a tool owned by Facebook and used for analyzing social media.
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It all happened right before our eyes. We saw the Trump rally that happened just before it, and what was said there. And yet, somehow, people like Mo Brooks think that Antifa somehow used "clever mob control tactics" to control Trump supporters to sack the Capitol?
 
From afar, this attempt to blame "Antifa" for the insurrection is SO remarkably childish.

"Little Timmy! Why did you climb up the bookcase and pull all the books on the floor?"

"Wasn't me, ma! It was...that kid next door."

"Don't lie to your mother. It WAS you because I just caught you up there throwing stuff. And there's no kid living next door."

"But ma, it WAS him! I saw him! I was never there!"

"Timmy, go to your room."
 
Norman Alexander said:
From afar, this attempt to blame "Antifa" for the insurrection is SO remarkably childish.

"Little Timmy! Why did you climb up the bookcase and pull all the books on the floor?"

"Wasn't me, ma! It was...that kid next door."

"Don't lie to your mother. It WAS you because I just caught you up there throwing stuff. And there's no kid living next door."

"But ma, it WAS him! I saw him! I was never there!"

"Timmy, go to your room."
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As I have posted before - Admitting that Antifa was so easily able to infiltrate the Trump supporters and influence them to the point of invading the Capitol is hardly a favorable indication of their collective intelligence.
 
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