Capital punishment

[Cainkane1]

I wish that was true, I honestly, really, wish that was true. What my sister, me and the other fella deserve need is help. I know I still have nightmares about the night I beat the piss out of him, I know my sister still has nightmares about self doubt on the night she was raped, I know that the bastard needs help to kerb his sexual urges, frustrations or whatever it is that could drive a man to such a heinous act. From a purely selfish point of view (after all I suffered the least here) is to put it behind me. But I find it hard to do. I still have nightmares about him dieing in his hospital bed, me at the foot of it, looking on, willing him to come through.
That fella suffered, he's a prick, but he suffered, desevedly so, I thought. But my sister and I (after a month of him being hospitalised) wished, hoped, begged for a recovery. Part of me feels that it was because of my/our humanitarianism, part of me feels that his recovery offered a lesser sentence. I just don't know.

Who knows how I'd feel if he'd died. At my hands. In a fit of pique!

Keep your death penalty. I'd say if you vote for it and agree with it, then have a call up similar to jury service. You have to press the button, pull the lever, push the syringe, pull the trigger or whatever is required when your name is called. I couldn't do it. That's why I disagree with it.

I was never on a death penalty case but I would have been if the punk had been two years older. Go to Georgia inmate locaters and look up Randy Dobbs. He killed a pizza delivery girl who was 20 years old and had a 7 month old baby. He did it because he wanted a joyride in her van. He was 15 and not eligible foor the death penalty. That was in October of 1989. He is in for life. No parole.

 

[welshdean]

I was never on a death penalty case but I would have been if the punk had been two years older. Go to Georgia inmate locaters and look up Randy Dobbs. He killed a pizza delivery girl who was 20 years old and had a 7 month old baby. He did it because he wanted a joyride in her van. He was 15 and not eligible foor the death penalty. That was in October of 1989. He is in for life. No parole.

You seem regretful that he isn't on 'Death Row'. The question still stands Cainkaine; Could you swing the axe?
Me, no! But I think the prick could do with a few years in an 8' x 6' with some "Hard, pipe-hittin' *******" _[that] "go to work on the holmes here with a pair a pliars and a blowtorch. You hear me talkin' Hillbilly Boy? I ain't through with you by a damn site. I'm gonna get medieval on your ass."




I have to say, I can quote a big game, but I couldn't be one of them "pipe hitting *******" again. It costs too much emotionally to do that shoite yourself. I promise you.

 

[Cainkane1]

You seem regretful that he isn't on 'Death Row'. The question still stands Cainkaine; Could you swing the axe?
Me, no! But I think the prick could do with a few years in an 8' x 6' with some "Hard, pipe-hittin' *******" _[that] "go to work on the holmes here with a pair a pliars and a blowtorch. You hear me talkin' Hillbilly Boy? I ain't through with you by a damn site. I'm gonna get medieval on your ass."




I have to say, I can quote a big game, but I couldn't be one of them "pipe hitting *******" again. It costs too much emotionally to do that shoite yourself. I promise you.

I think what he has is worse than the death penalty. Never been with a woman. He spent his late teens and his entire twenties in prison with no end in sight.. A short white boy in a mostly black prison conjures up evil images. He was a virgin when he went in but I doubt if he is now. Time goes by and it isn't going to get any better.

He had a chance for parole after 20 years but he has done something in prison to have that chance taken away. His life is destroyed and what must hurt him the worst is knowing he put himself where he is.

 

[welshdean]

Go to Georgia inmate locaters and look up Randy Dobbs.

Uhh, I did. I looked under every type of spelling, caps, non caps etc, etc, etc. Aaaaand nothing, A link would be nice.

 

[welshdean]

I think what he has is worse than the death penalty. Never been with a woman. He spent his late teens and his entire twenties in prison with no end in sight.. A short white boy in a mostly black prison conjures up evil images. He was a virgin when he went in but I doubt if he is now. Time goes by and it isn't going to get any better.

He had a chance for parole after 20 years but he has done something in prison to have that chance taken away. His life is destroyed and what must hurt him the worst is knowing he put himself where he is.

Read your words back again, slowly and purposefully. Do they not chill you? Oh and by the way, isn't adding 'mostly black' when talking about the US penal systems inmates a little bit redundant?

 

[theprestige]

I don't see the death penalty in terms of money; I see it in terms of barter: You take something, you give something in return.

Some things, you take them, they're worth more than you could ever give in return. So, you give what you can. If what you took is worth more than everything you have, then you give it all.

You rape and murder an innocent girl, nothing you have could ever make up for that. Not all the money in the world will ease her family's pain. Not all the community service you could render in a thousand lifetimes would justify that one horrible act. Your own life isn't even worth the life you tortured and took. Your own life, however, has the singular virtue of being everything you have to give: All your potential, all your hopes and dreams, all your essential will to live--it's not enough, but it is everything. Give us that, in exchange for what you took, and I'll call it quits.

 

[Her Dark Star]

Some things, you take them, they're worth more than you could ever give in return. So, you give what you can. If what you took is worth more than everything you have, then you give it all. ..snip..
..... Your own life isn't even worth the life you tortured and took. Your own life, however, has the singular virtue of being everything you have to give: All your potential, all your hopes and dreams, all your essential will to live--it's not enough, but it is everything. Give us that, in exchange for what you took, and I'll call it quits.

Interesting, I've already stated that I have every sympathy for this kind of response but I might argue actually the opposite is true. Assuming that the offender is capable of some kind of positive contribution (not sure all are), killing them also removes any chance of any ammendment. Their death is simply vengeance and while no, of course nothing that they could ever do would ever make up for a murder it may be possible that they could do something positive. And that, however small, should be better than if they were just killed?
I don't pretend to have an answer to this and it is tempting to think that, well, we're overpopulated anyway so knocking off the section of society that commits such things would be better for everyone.
Ah if only life and ethics were simple affairs

 

[kedo1981]

All these responses are so wrong headed I just can’t believe it.
You people seem to think violent criminals just accidentally comment crimes.

They spend their entire lives hurting people, and not just their crime victims, their families, you think a rapist or an assaulter isn’t beating the crap out of his wife, or perpetuating the cycle violence onto his children?
I’m just suggesting a way to cut the cycle.
Use your example Walshdean, if you had looked into his eyes and could see that he comment another handful of rapes (in US prisons at least a rapist comments 4 to 6 rapes before they serve any lengthy jail time) how would you feel about ”his just needing help”.
Or the Alan Dobbs case, for every Dobbs that doesn’t ever get out (of course if you think he’ll never get out you are very stupid) there are a hundred more that do get out who have spent those years enduring (what you all seem to think is “just” and kind of funny) sexual torture. What do they want to do first, have a cheeseburger from 5 guys and rape a 8 year old black girl, ha ha ha, is it funny now.
There is no way to stop the first crime but there sure as hell is a way to stop the second one.
I’m not suggesting a wholesale machine-gunning of people accused of crime.
It would require improvements in our legal system that is really impossible, a near perfect form of forensics science, making cops, DA, Judges held accountable for the illegal ways they put innocents in jail.
For the first violent crime if convicted
You should get 2 appeals not more than 6 months apart (see this alone would require a whole new legal system)
And then if still found guilty you are killed within a year.
Do it with no ritual in the most painless possible way(heating the brain stem with microwaves to 110 degrees for 30 seconds “or until all kernels are popped” is completely painless)
Remove the pretence of justice for the victims.
Will this even be plausible? well no, what we will do is continue with a revolving door prison system and criminals that comment their crimes for a lifetime.

 

[Her Dark Star]

Is it plausible? That is kind of the key issue. If a perfect system of proving guilt were in place and a perfect system of establishing whether or not an individual could be reformed (in most of the examples given the obvious answer is no but how do you be sure and where do you draw the lines?) and if it could all be done more efficiently so that it didn't end up costing more to execute them then I think many people would feel differently. However none of those things are feasible at the moment, so what do you do in the mean time?

 

[Cainkane1]

Read your words back again, slowly and purposefully. Do they not chill you? Oh and by the way, isn't adding 'mostly black' when talking about the US penal systems inmates a little bit redundant?

What my post says is chilling. I put the white boy in a mostly black prison scenerio to make the boys fate sound grim. In reality its without a doubt much worse than any visual I could place in your mind.

He planned ahead to kill the 20 year old married mother of an infant baby. He deliberately murdered her and he smiled during his police questioning. He smiled for the camera when he was handcuffed.

Ok now what?

 

[Cainkane1]

Uhh, I did. I looked under every type of spelling, caps, non caps etc, etc, etc. Aaaaand nothing, A link would be nice.

http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/GDC/OffenderQuery/jsp/OffQryRedirector.jsp

Go to offender information

 

[aggle-rithm]

Do it with no ritual in the most painless possible way(heating the brain stem with microwaves to 110 degrees for 30 seconds “or until all kernels are popped” is completely painless)

I've read a book recently that talks about the problem of executing someone in a humane fashion. The problem is that in order to be humane, two conditions have to be met:

1. It has to be painless for the executee
2. It has to LOOK humane to observers.

These two are often mutually exclusive. For instance, lethal injection LOOKS humane because the person is just lying there, but since everyone reacts differently to medication, there's no guarantee that the death will be painless...for instance, the drug that stops the heart may work faster than the drug that renders the person unconscious.

Driving a high-speed blunt object into the brainstem would be painless, but it LOOKS violent, so that's out.

I hadn't heard the microwave method, but I'm sure there would be plenty of opposition on the grounds that "cooking" the brainstem is just...creepy. One might never be able to eat popcorn again after viewing the execution.

 

[Segnosaur]

I think what he has is worse than the death penalty. Never been with a woman. He spent his late teens and his entire twenties in prison with no end in sight..

I do have to wonder if its really true that life in jail really is worse than the death penalty. Not saying it isn't, but really, how exactly do you measure "no freedom ever" against "your existence is terminated"? And if life in prison really were so much more worse than the death penalty, why haven't more convicts committed suicide?

He had a chance for parole after 20 years but he has done something in prison to have that chance taken away. .

Any idea what he did to have parole taken away? If he were wrongly blamed for something in prison, that's one thing. But if he actually was the instigator to something in prison, maybe he's handling his incarceration better than you seem to think.

 

[Naddig74]

If I catch some piece of crap in the act of raping my (as of yet non-existent) daughter, he is going to die.

*********** word. This may be construed as argument from emotion, but anyone I catch in the act of doing anything damaging to my daughter had better look to his life. This isn't because I'm a psychopath or have an urge to kill...it's because I'm a parent. Go out into the woods and kick a bear cub and see what it gets you.

Rape, seriously?
A crime where the victim survives, possibly even without permanent injury?

Are you SERIOUS? No permanent injury? What about the psychological damage? What about STD's? What about pregnancy? What about a lifelong fear of men, certain places or times? Pull your head out of your arse.

You have just stated here that you have an intent to commit murder. Should we be better safe than sorry and lock you up for life?

A few years ago, in the UK, a serving police officer caught a man in the act of molesting his niece. He killed him on the spot. He was charged with murder and the case was almost immediately dismissed by the judge who said that killing in a situation such as this is not murder.

You deserve a medal.

*********** A.

 

[Suddenly]

I do have to wonder if its really true that life in jail really is worse than the death penalty. Not saying it isn't, but really, how exactly do you measure "no freedom ever" against "your existence is terminated"? And if life in prison really were so much more worse than the death penalty, why haven't more convicts committed suicide?

I spend a lot of time with lifers. I get the feeling that on the whole people are miserable or they are not and circumstances don't have all that much to do with it. That said, the horror of knowing you will die in jail is the same horror no matter when it is likely to happen. It is a complicated issue and varies by person as to which is worse.

Any idea what he did to have parole taken away? If he were wrongly blamed for something in prison, that's one thing. But if he actually was the instigator to something in prison, maybe he's handling his incarceration better than you seem to think.

Generally the lack of parole eligibility is part of the sentence. He was never to be considered for parole in the first place. I'm not a big fan of this in general, especially for teens whose brains haven't developed yet.

Many if not most killers, maybe this kid, need locked up for good. I'd just rather have someone make that determination twenty years down the road than now.

 

[Segnosaur]

I spend a lot of time with lifers. I get the feeling that on the whole people are miserable or they are not and circumstances don't have all that much to do with it. That said, the horror of knowing you will die in jail is the same horror no matter when it is likely to happen. It is a complicated issue and varies by person as to which is worse.

Well, I'll defer to your experience.

Like I said, I was just skeptic of a statement made by so many people (especially anti-death penalty advocates) that locking people up is somehow "a worse + better" punishment.

Generally the lack of parole eligibility is part of the sentence. He was never to be considered for parole in the first place.

Are you referring to this specific case, or similar cases in general?

From the way Cainkane1 had stated it, it sounded like he was considered for parole at the time of sentencing, but then it got taken away for something he did in prison.

 

[Cainkane1]

I've read a book recently that talks about the problem of executing someone in a humane fashion. The problem is that in order to be humane, two conditions have to be met:

1. It has to be painless for the executee
2. It has to LOOK humane to observers.

These two are often mutually exclusive. For instance, lethal injection LOOKS humane because the person is just lying there, but since everyone reacts differently to medication, there's no guarantee that the death will be painless...for instance, the drug that stops the heart may work faster than the drug that renders the person unconscious.

Driving a high-speed blunt object into the brainstem would be painless, but it LOOKS violent, so that's out.

I hadn't heard the microwave method, but I'm sure there would be plenty of opposition on the grounds that "cooking" the brainstem is just...creepy. One might never be able to eat popcorn again after viewing the execution.

Is the death penalty really worse than life with no parole? There are plenty of suicides in prison. Jumping off of high places and hanging yourself or slitting your wrists seems much more painful than being executed. Look at Randy Dobbs fate in my example. Is he really that much better off living in this environment for the rest of his life?

 

[DC]

I think the Death penalty is not up to date anymore. Its the year 2010, we should stop that medieval practice of killing people. I find it uncivilized.

 

[Suddenly]

From the way Cainkane1 had stated it, it sounded like he was considered for parole at the time of sentencing, but then it got taken away for something he did in prison.

Reading it again, you are right. I'm unaware of a law where a prisoner can totally lose parole eligibility without being convicted of another crime. I just went through the Georgia criminal code and I didn't find anything helpful as to that.

I know they can be ineligible for parole because of discipline problems, but those are curable at least in theory. Maybe he is functionally ineligible because he did something on the inside that a parole board just is never going to overlook. I've clients theoretically parole eligible who I doubt will ever get out of punitive segregation much less the whole prison...

 

[Suddenly]

Is the death penalty really worse than life with no parole? There are plenty of suicides in prison. Jumping off of high places and hanging yourself or slitting your wrists seems much more painful than being executed. Look at Randy Dobbs fate in my example. Is he really that much better off living in this environment for the rest of his life?

Depends on the fate... you might want to ask him. If prison is all you ever know, and for him it more or less is, your expectations might be a bit different. Prison food is only bad if you have something better to compare it with.

His life might be a nightmare. Or he might be having a splendid time playing basketball on the yard and reading Nietzsche in his cell.

I think his parole issue is that he has two life sentences making it as far as I can tell thirty years to parole eligibility so his profile on the Georgia DOC website lists no estimated parole date.