Cancel culture IRL

[PhantomWolf]

I do have to say that I find it rather ironic that the exact same people that were calling for the "cancellation" of Brie Larson's Captain Marvel, and for the heads of Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson over the perceived political messages in Last Jedi are now all QQing over the non-renewing of Gina Carano's contract.

It does seem that "Cancel Culture" is only a bad thing when used against members of the Rightwing Privileged Class.

 

[d4m10n]

I do have to say that I find it rather ironic that the exact same people that were calling for the "cancellation" of Brie Larson's Captain Marvel, and for the heads of Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson over the perceived political messages in Last Jedi are now all QQing over the non-renewing of Gina Carano's contract.

Any examples come to mind? I don't remember Larson doing anything untoward.

 

[johnny karate]

Any examples come to mind? I don't remember Larson doing anything untoward.

The untoward thing she did was be a woman.

 

[d4m10n]

The untoward thing she did was be a woman.

Seems like an outright job qualification for the role of Carol Danvers^WP but hey, I'm not up on this particular controversy.

It does seem that "Cancel Culture" is only a bad thing when used against members of the Rightwing Privileged Class.

Literally no one has been saying that here at ISF.

 

[Thermal]

That’s a non sequitur to my post.

....but follows very much in the overall thread discussion. No post is on a vacuum, n'est-ce pas?

 

[Thermal]

No one is cheering for that.

Several ones surely are defending that.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I don’t see you doing a lot of hand-wringing over racism, sexism, murder, or thievery. But for some reason “cancel culture” is a big problem for you.

How do you reconcile that?

I reconcile that by noting that you have some seriously selective reading skills.

All of those are MASSIVE problems for me and viewpoints that I strongly oppose. Honestly, if you have somehow managed to bury your head so far into your own special pile of sand here that you somehow think I don't argue strongly against sexism or racism, you clearly haven't been paying any attention at all. I'm against murder and thievery too, just never really thought I needed to make a great show of singing it from the rooftops... so...

 

[Emily's Cat]

Because no one is arguing “This has always existed and therefore it is good”, the argument is “This has always existed and you suddenly being worried about it seems disingenuous”.

That's a strange argument. Do you genuinely think it would make any sense at all for me to be *worried* about things that happened in the past? Or that somehow me being worried about things happening *right now* that also happened in the past and that I think were bad in the past is disingenuous?

If I were around during the inquisition, WW2, the witch burnings, the McCarthy era, and similar such cases of coercion and threat being used to silence and intimidate people with the "wrong" beliefs, I'd have been worried about it then too.

 

[Emily's Cat]

No one is cheering for that.

Well... several posters, including you, certainly don't seem to think there's anything at all wrong with it and also seem to think that the targets of such action deserve it.

I'm not really sure what the distinction is.

 

[tyr_13]

What do you think the first two or three posters meant by the phrase "cancel culture" back in 2016-2017 when the phrase hadn't yet been adopted in conservative circles?

This means that you're abandoning the pertinent portions of the definition to focus on the part of my claim that the current common usage is from conservative media. This means you acknowledge that the phrase has a negative connotation, specifically about it being inherently harmful and unjust. This was the way it was used in your own exemplars, including by people indicating they are more than willing to participate in 'canceling' people but not in 'cancel culture' thereby delineating those phrases.

Why?

I doubt you could provide a dozen, seeing as you've provided zero.



Whom are you (mis)quoting?

You appear to not accept your own sources, so why would I waste time giving you mine? Whatever, have some anyway because this is unbelievably trivial to show.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox...ncel-culture-segment-bill-hemmer-video-2021-2

https://www.rawstory.com/cancel-culture-fox-news/

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6222725544001#sp=show-clips

https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-y...teenage-revenge-cheerleader-racial-slur-video

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/cancel-culture-covid-19-lockdown-doubters-karol-markowicz

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6163232862001#sp=show-clips

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6163309731001#sp=show-clips

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6177671407001#sp=show-clips

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...jim-jordan-trump-cancel-culture-b1802198.html

 

[Emily's Cat]

Great, can we also safely assume that acknowledging the concept of “cancelling” existed long before we had a catchy name for it is not necessarily a condonement? Because that seems to be a difficult concept for some people.

It's not a difficult concept for anybody. It does, however, seem to be the best infrastructure for a widely hailed strawman in the parts... although I can't for the life of me figure out why.

This thread has essentially been...

Group A: Hey, cancel culture is a bad thing, this sort of mob mentality retaliation is really open to abuse and I think we should oppose this

Group B: You act like this is something new, it's been around forever!

NONE of us has claimed that it's new. But you guys have been hammering the "it's not new" drum since page one. It makes no sense, and it doesn't address any of the concerns put forth at all.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I do have to say that I find it rather ironic that the exact same people that were calling for the "cancellation" of Brie Larson's Captain Marvel, and for the heads of Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson over the perceived political messages in Last Jedi are now all QQing over the non-renewing of Gina Carano's contract.

What the hell are you talking about? Who was calling for "cancellation" of those things?

 

[Thermal]

What the hell are you talking about? Who was calling for "cancellation" of those things?

Seems like half the posts ITT are arguing with someone else that they have confused with posters ITT.

 

[Shalamar]

I do have to say that I find it rather ironic that the exact same people that were calling for the "cancellation" of Brie Larson's Captain Marvel, and for the heads of Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson over the perceived political messages in Last Jedi are now all QQing over the non-renewing of Gina Carano's contract.

It does seem that "Cancel Culture" is only a bad thing when used against members of the Rightwing Privileged Class.

It's only wrong when the left does it.

 

[Distracted1]

I reconcile that by noting that you have some seriously selective reading skills.

All of those are MASSIVE problems for me and viewpoints that I strongly oppose. Honestly, if you have somehow managed to bury your head so far into your own special pile of sand here that you somehow think I don't argue strongly against sexism or racism, you clearly haven't been paying any attention at all. I'm against murder and thievery too, just never really thought I needed to make a great show of singing it from the rooftops... so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d60GozCNi2g

 

[d4m10n]

This means you acknowledge that the phrase has a negative connotation, specifically about it being inherently harmful and unjust.

I do not intend the phrase to carry this connotation, as anyone may well have guessed from this post:

Not every cancellation is warranted, nor is every cancellation unwarranted. If you're trying to bin them all together under the heading of necessary or excessive, you're missing the trees for the forest.

If some cancellations are justifiable, it would seem rather odd that "cancel culture" is invariably inherently unjust.

This was the way it was used in your own exemplars, including by people indicating they are more than willing to participate in 'canceling' people but not in 'cancel culture' thereby delineating those phrases.

I gave you those sources to show you where the phrase "cancel culture" originally came from, but I don't expect every one of those examples to agree on what the phrase should be taken to mean.

You appear to not accept your own sources, so why would I waste time giving you mine?

I don't recall promising to use the phrase in exactly the same way that any particular tweeter does.

(Which one are you talking about, by the way?)

Whatever, have some anyway because this is unbelievably trivial to show.

You believe that these links demonstrate that cancel culture "as a description of the action comes from conservative media" rather than from anywhere else? That's a bit weird, given that they are several years late to the party. People have been using the phrase at issue to describe a cultural tendency towards using online shaming (typically around a single viral incident) to bring about a social or organizational response for literally years before the links you've brought to the discussion here. What is your argument that the new kids should get a definitive say in what the phrase should be taken to mean right now?

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ETA: As something of an aside, I did like this bit from one of your links:

"I have to be honest about this," Goldberg replied. "This is an American problem. There is a vast and thriving right-wing cancel culture. There's a vast and thriving left-wing cancel culture."

"President Trump was a huge fan of cancelling people," he continued. "He tried to have me fired from Fox and from National Review because he didn't like what I wrote. This is a problem that we have in America of just widespread intolerance for disagreement."

 

[tyr_13]

I do not intend the phrase to carry this connotation, as anyone may well have guessed from this post:



If some cancellations are justifiable, it would seem rather odd that "cancel culture" is invariably inherently unjust.

I gave you those sources to show you where the phrase "cancel culture" originally came from, but I don't expect every one of those examples to agree on what the phrase should be taken to mean.

I don't recall promising to use the phrase in exactly the same way that any particular tweeter does.

(Which one are you talking about, by the way?)

You believe that these links demonstrate that cancel culture "as a description of the action comes from conservative media" rather than from anywhere else? That's a bit weird, given that they are several years late to the party. People have been using the phrase at issue to describe a cultural tendency towards using online shaming (typically around on a single viral incident) to bring about a social or organizational response for literally years before the links you've brought to the discussion here. What is the argument that the new kids should get a definitive say in what the phrase should be taken to mean right now?

------------------

ETA: As something of an aside, I did like this bit from one of your links:

This nonsense keeps going further and further afield from anything of any importance for the issue. Common usage is what it is, and 'new kids' or not doesn't matter.

Your desired usage doesn't change the common usage. In any discussion about cancel culture people are correct to point out the flaws in the common usage, and your desires just don't weigh into if that's a valid point to make or not.

 

[d4m10n]

This thread has essentially been...

Group A: Hey, cancel culture is a bad thing, this sort of mob mentality retaliation is really open to abuse and I think we should oppose this

Group B: You act like this is something new, it's been around forever!

I'd only go so far as to say that cancellations are rather often a bad thing and that mob/viral reactions generally cannot be trusted to skeptically and carefully evaluate claims from all sides before demanding decisive action.

 

[d4m10n]

Your desired usage doesn't change the common usage. In any discussion about cancel culture people are correct to point out the flaws in the common usage, and your desires just don't weigh into if that's a valid point to make or not.

What is your argument that conservative news sources reflect common usage, but other sources (e.g. those who originally popularized the phrase, or left-of-center commentators) do not?

 

[d4m10n]

Been trying to track down a definition of "cancel culture" from a relatively unbiased and non-polemical source. So far, I've only found a couple.

The Wikipedia page for cancel culture^WP is a good one, IMO.

Here is another one, from Morning Consult polling:

As you may know, cancel culture is the practice of withdrawing support for (or canceling) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive. Cancel culture is generally discussed as being performed on social media in the form of group shaming.

I personally prefer this one, it seems to capture most of what I've been getting at.