Cancel culture IRL

[Cain]

Carano said something stupid, and a large part of the population responded by saying...

This has been litigated up-thread: Twitter is not real-life. For as many people complained about Gina Carano, vastly more said nothing at all.

Reactionaries responded by saying "actually this is exactly the kind of stupid we like, gimme more" and now she's doing her tour through the right wing press, with promises of future work as some aggrieved cultural icon of the right.

And that's problematic because it encourages obnoxious cultural balkanization. It's probably not a good thing that entertainment is viewed through the lens of heightened tribal politics.

"Cancel culture" is little more than the intersection of free speech and free association.

...

Seems like the "marketplace of ideas" is working fine.

It sounds like you've internalized elements of naive libertarianism. Employers insist the state tramples their right of free association/free-contract when it requires dangerous jobs are made to be less dangerous, or that wages above some minimum must be paid. Of course, people who "agree" to work under such conditions are up against a background of coercion, so their employment is not necessarily free and voluntary.

Mill warned against "the tyranny of prevailing opinion." One of the externalities of your beautiful "markeplace" is that people will be more inclined to falsify their public views, causing them to behave more and more like robotic politicians of yesteryear. Those who are not "canceled" (or not cancelable) will play to the worst people in their tribe (see, for instance, the Republican Party).

 

[d4m10n]

First of all, allow me to laugh hysterically at the idea that anyone values Gina Carano for her acting.

Perhaps we have different tastes; I enjoyed the idea of a Disney+ series featuring a strong woman (in every sense) on the team. I suppose Star Wars has always been better at this than the rest of the Disney franchises, come to think of it. (Perhaps we'll see more Ashoka Tano going fwd?)

Gina Carano remains uncancelled.

Alas, Cara Dune remains canceled. How does this make the world a better place? According to the article you shared, Carano's public profile appears to be waxing rather than waning.

 

[johnny karate]

Perhaps we have different tastes; I enjoyed the idea of a Disney+ series featuring a strong woman (in every sense) on the team. I suppose Star Wars has always been better at this than the rest of the Disney franchises, come to think of it. (Perhaps we'll see more Ashoka Tano going fwd?)

Then you should enjoy the many other strong women they’ve introduced in the very same series who were all actually portrayed by competent actors.

Alas, Cara Dune remains canceled.

Cara Dune was fairly inconsequential to the overall narrative of The Mandalorian. Her absence won’t affect the story at all. But, if the demand is there, Disney owns the character. She can make appearances in other media. Or maybe she’ll just fade into obscurity like dozens of other minor Star Wars characters. We never got the Dex Jettster spin-off series so many of us were clamoring for. It was a devastating blow, but the Star Wars fan community has managed to bravely move forward.

How does this make the world a better place?

How did the incendiary garbage that Gina Carano publicly broadcast make the world a better place?

According to the article you shared, Carano's public profile appears to be waxing rather than waning.

Yes, actions have consequences. Something most adults understand.

 

[johnny karate]

Haha.... Am I now in a drama I know nothing about? Maybe I'll ride this wave for a a bit. Life isnt very exciting these days.
Outer space guns sound cool.

(I almost read the thread to see what you were speaking about but I'm going to refrain on this one...like a diet)

Okay then. Well, thanks for chiming in on a subject you admit to knowing nothing about. I’m not sure what would possess someone to do that, but you do you.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's probably not a good thing that entertainment is viewed through the lens of heightened tribal politics.

Okay. Then one of our two tribes of politic needs to stop throwing rocks through Overton's Window.

"Waaahhh! Waaaahhh! Why does everything have to political!" doesn't work when one side of "political" is reality-denying conspiracy theorists.

That was my point with Chris Pratt early. You can be conservative as you want and not get "cancelled" until your "conservatism" becomes hateful or stupid.

It's nobody fault that conservatism is defining itself by its hate and stupidity more and more as time goes on.

 

[johnny karate]

Okay. Then one of our two tribes of politic needs to stop throwing rocks through Overton's Window.

"Waaahhh! Waaaahhh! Why does everything have to political!" doesn't work when one side of "political" is reality-denying conspiracy theorists.

That was my point with Chris Pratt early. You can be conservative as you want and not get "cancelled" until your "conservatism" becomes hateful or stupid.

It's nobody fault that conservatism is defining itself by its hate and stupidity more and more as time goes on.

Well said.

Upthread, it was asked how firing Carano makes the world a better place. Just a truly baffling question in the face of people like her actively trying to make it a worse place.

 

[Thermal]

Okay then. Well, thanks for chiming in on a subject you admit to knowing nothing about. I’m not sure what would possess someone to do that, but you do you.

There is a standing internet guideline that if you want to know more about a topic, don't ask about it, just post something ill informed and legions will descend to correct you with four-part harmony and feeling.

 

[dirtywick]

Okay. Then one of our two tribes of politic needs to stop throwing rocks through Overton's Window.

"Waaahhh! Waaaahhh! Why does everything have to political!" doesn't work when one side of "political" is reality-denying conspiracy theorists.

That was my point with Chris Pratt early. You can be conservative as you want and not get "cancelled" until your "conservatism" becomes hateful or stupid.

It's nobody fault that conservatism is defining itself by its hate and stupidity more and more as time goes on.

I agree, if putting the idea that Democrats are baby eating pedophilic Jews secretly running by Hollywood, and DJT will save us from them but first we need to overthrow democracy is a conservative political view, I don't feel like a lot of the free exchange of ideas and public discourse is being lost by the public shunning.

If other people feel differently, go buy some Gina Carano/Ben Shapiro merch and fire off some Tweets at Disney accusing them of also being a pedophile or whatever. I'm not going to do it for you out of fairness.

 

[d4m10n]

How does this make the world a better place?

How did the incendiary garbage that Gina Carano publicly broadcast make the world a better place?

Would you like me to answer your question before you answer mine?

 

[johnny karate]

Would you like me to answer your question before you answer mine?

Not really. It was rhetorical, the purpose being to point out the wildly disproportionate standards at play.

If Carano doesn’t have to account for the consequences of her behavior, neither does anyone who takes issue with her behavior and responds accordingly.

 

[Cain]

Okay. Then one of our two tribes of politic needs to stop throwing rocks through Overton's Window.

Maybe you've been lost in ill-advised metaphors, or performing whiney imitations, but an important part of the discussion is where the window resides and how it moves.

"Waaahhh! Waaaahhh! Why does everything have to political!" doesn't work when one side of "political" is reality-denying conspiracy theorists.

This is a non-sequitur. And the paranoid style of American politics is an old tradition stretching from Federalists claiming Francophile Jefferson would station guillotines in every town to Oliver Stone's JFK wackiness to the present day (with many stops between).

That was my point with Chris Pratt early. You can be conservative as you want and not get "cancelled" until your "conservatism" becomes hateful or stupid.

This is just false. You can be as hateful and stupid as you want as long as you're quiet. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the "Bad" Chris believes hateful and stupid things. It wouldn't surprise me if he says hateful and stupid things. It wouldn't surprise me to learn he has a team of well-paid people who want to continue to be well-paid keeping the things he says, or wants to say, in check.

It's nobody fault that conservatism is defining itself by its hate and stupidity more and more as time goes on.

It's not easy to understand what this unlettered sentence is groping for, but it sounds like fundamental attribution error. Ideologies are (in part) a product of culture and institutions.

 

[Cain]

Disney did. They said “You’re fired”.

In this thread we've seen glimpses of a Divine Command Theory where God is played by the Free Market. Is certain behavior wrong because God forbids it, or does God forbid it because it's wrong?

Who cares? God's gonna God.

 

[Mumbles]

Perhaps we have different tastes; I enjoyed the idea of a Disney+ series featuring a strong woman (in every sense) on the team. I suppose Star Wars has always been better at this than the rest of the Disney franchises, come to think of it. (Perhaps we'll see more Ashoka Tano going fwd?)

That's great, but a couple of things:

A lot of the people yelling about how Carano lost her job in this case, were just last year the exact same people how her Character was a "Mary Due" introduced to be a better fighter than everyone else for the "Woke mobs" who don't even watch the show would be satisfied. Also common subjects include how horrible Captain Marvel is, how horrible Rose Tico was, how awful Rey was, how FEE-Male Ghostbusters ruined their childhoods, and why the latest She-Ra reboot needed bigger boobs and how dare they imply any lesbianism when the original He-Man and She-Ra provided no hint at all of anything gay-friendly.

She really isn't very good. She's really an MMA fighter (Huh, MMA twitter turns out to be a cesspool - who knew?) who typically gets "silent fighting woman #4" style parts.

Also, Pedro Pascal - you know, the guy that actually plays the Mandalorian - pulled her aside, explained how she was being offensive to both himself (a Latino refugee who fled to the US with his parents when Pinochet took over) and his sibling (who is trans), and asked her to just cool it with the whole "I hate refugees and trans folks" thing, *after* Disney warned her to knock it off.

As far as I care, she's some person who was likely well-paid, who got a nice public break, but blew it. Somewhat amusing, but only relavent in that some people decided to yowl about "cancel culture" got her, when it's really just standard employment clauses.

Alas, Cara Dune remains canceled. How does this make the world a better place? According to the article you shared, Carano's public profile appears to be waxing rather than waning.

I mean, it was before, and again, nobody gets canceled, so she may even recover from both this and whatever miserable trash she does with Ben "Ilhan Oar is a disgusting anti-Semite and AOC needs to denounce her and come debate me!" Shapiro.

 

[dirtywick]

This is just false. You can be as hateful and stupid as you want as long as you're quiet. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the "Bad" Chris believes hateful and stupid things. It wouldn't surprise me if he says hateful and stupid things. It wouldn't surprise me to learn he has a team of well-paid people who want to continue to be well-paid keeping the things he says, or wants to say, in check.

Isn't a celebrity hiding unappealing things about themselves just being good at their job?

 

[dudalb]

That's great, but a couple of things:

A lot of the people yelling about how Carano lost her job in this case, were just last year the exact same people how her Character was a "Mary Due" introduced to be a better fighter than everyone else for the "Woke mobs" who don't even watch the show would be satisfied. Also common subjects include how horrible Captain Marvel is, how horrible Rose Tico was, how awful Rey was, how FEE-Male Ghostbusters ruined their childhoods, and why the latest She-Ra reboot needed bigger boobs and how dare they imply any lesbianism when the original He-Man and She-Ra provided no hint at all of anything gay-friendly.

She really isn't very good. She's really an MMA fighter (Huh, MMA twitter turns out to be a cesspool - who knew?) who typically gets "silent fighting woman #4" style parts.

Also, Pedro Pascal - you know, the guy that actually plays the Mandalorian - pulled her aside, explained how she was being offensive to both himself (a Latino refugee who fled to the US with his parents when Pinochet took over) and his sibling (who is trans), and asked her to just cool it with the whole "I hate refugees and trans folks" thing, *after* Disney warned her to knock it off.

As far as I care, she's some person who was likely well-paid, who got a nice public break, but blew it. Somewhat amusing, but only relavent in that some people decided to yowl about "cancel culture" got her, when it's really just standard employment clauses.



I mean, it was before, and again, nobody gets canceled, so she may even recover from both this and whatever miserable trash she does with Ben "Ilhan Oar is a disgusting anti-Semite and AOC needs to denounce her and come debate me!" Shapiro.

Carano was sort of fun in her role in the first "Deadpool" movie, but I don't know if she could have carried a series. She does not seem to have the chrisma to be another Rock and make the transition. And the Rock knows better then to tweet political crap.
As for the post we are discussing saying he wants a Disney Plus series with a strong woman lead, guess he has not heard about "Wandavision".

 

[dudalb]

ANyway Carano should be a bit grateful that the Joss Whedon scandal is taking some of the the attention.

 

[johnny karate]

In this thread we've seen glimpses of a Divine Command Theory where God is played by the Free Market. Is certain behavior wrong because God forbids it, or does God forbid it because it's wrong?

Who cares? God's gonna God.

Framing this a moralistic judgement of Carano’s behavior is a red herring, and of course, another opportunity for wokescolds to avoid actually addressing the behavior itself.

Carano behaved in a way that her employer found objectionable, who then decided to terminate her employment as a result, as is their right.

End of story.

 

[dudalb]

Framing this a moralistic judgement of Carano’s behavior is a red herring, and of course, another opportunity for wokescolds to avoid actually addressing the behavior itself.

Carano behaved in a way that her employer found objectionable, who then decided to terminate her employment as a result, as is their right.

End of story.

Dinsey in particular considers i'ts image to be it's most valuable asset, and it will act pretty ruthlessly to protect it.
you just don't mess with the Mouse.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The closest thing to a legit complaint about "Cancel Culture" is the tendency for it to be a one size fits all "punishment."

We can debate the social pressure/social punishment/whatever you want to call for the various cases all being discussed, but the only thing the feels legit off to me is that the response is all equal no matter the transgression.

Cosby needs to be put on an ice floe. Other people need a way of coming back.

No this isn't an easy line to draw.

 

[dudalb]

The closest thing to a legit complaint about "Cancel Culture" is the tendency for it to be a one size fits all "punishment."

We can debate the social pressure/social punishment/whatever you want to call for the various cases all being discussed, but the only thing the feels legit off to me is that the response is all equal no matter the transgression.

Cosby needs to be put on an ice floe. Other people need a way of coming back.

No this isn't an easy line to draw.

To be joined there by Harvey Weinstein who was just as bad.