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Ed Canadian election fraud investigation

This isn’t going to go over well.



Story.


I was generally ambivalent about the Conservatives, but if this scandal has legs, and it looks like it just might, I am going to move from being ambivalent to being outrightly hostile. And I expect a lot of other Canadians will too. Winning a majority fair and square is one thing, but crap like this to win a majority? That's third-world tin pot dictator type of stuff.
 
Can we let a third party take a crack at government now? Please?
 
Hey, I know that guy!
Do you know Joe? He's Canadian too!

ETA: For the longest time, I billed myself as a "radical centrist" ( party motto:"death to extremists!") but as The Harper Government rolls on, I find myself *really* disliking them out of proportion to how I usually feel about all three parties. I'd be inclined to vote NDP if they manage to pick somebody who actually seemed capable of doing more than filling a suit and mouthing platitudes about "Jack"
 
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Can we let a third party take a crack at government now? Please?

I would love to see the Bloc take over. :D Unfortunately, they don't run candidates in every province. The NPD with Mulcair would be interesting though.
 
I would love to see the Bloc take over. :D Unfortunately, they don't run candidates in every province.
:eek:
Mind you, if they ran in every riding on a campaign of Quebec separation, they might just win...KIDDING!!
The NPD with Mulcair would be interesting though.
He might tilt the party just rightward enough to be broadly electable. He's not a very likable character, however.
 
He might tilt the party just rightward enough to be broadly electable. He's not a very likable character, however.

Perhaps, but he's much more likable than Harper if you ask me. Except in the West, but I think all the tar sand fumes are affecting the perception of Westerners.:D

/well, west of the Rockies it's probably more the BC bud fumes that's altering perceptions
 
If Mr. Harper has any evidence that the Liberal Party is involved, he should tell the RCMP and Elections Canada.

:dl:
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...cks-investigator-assigned-to-robo-calls-probe

The man who led the probe of the federal Conservative “in-and-out” election advertising scheme has turned his sights on allegations of illegal vote suppression in last year’s federal campaign.

The office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections has assigned veteran dirty-tricks investigator Ronald Lamothe to conduct inquiries, the Star has learned.

They've sent their best man. Top gun dirty-tricks investigator.:boxedin:
 
This is a pretty stupid story. It's obviously low level, it certainly didn't effect who is in power. Liberals just trying to get anything to stick.... Just like Harper would have done.
 
Let me begin by saying that I can't stand Harper, and would love to see him and the Conservatives taken out of power. That being said...

...I think there's an awful lot of partisan hyperbole here. There are no indications whatsoever that this was part of a national strategy, or that the party leadership either knew about or endorsed such actions. It seems much more likely to me to be the result of actions by local idiots, without the knowledge or permission of the party leadership.

In addition, while such tactics are shameful, they don't seem to have had any significant impact on the actual results (in Hamilton, where the most serious case seems to have been, the Liberals won by quite a significant margin). There is no evidence whatsoever that there's anyone who won a seat fraudulently.

Harper absolutely should have called for an independent investigation immediately; and some of his nonsense (such as insisting that Liberals should make all information about who they called public, but saying that the Conservatives don't need to) really goes beyond acceptable. But that's just the way the man is...he's a control freak who does everything he can to ensure that any information related to his own party is thoroughly controlled by him. (Witness the current debate over federally funded science research being controlled by the Conservatives, with scientists unable to comment publicly or publish their research without first being vetted by the gov't). I don't think it is so much an effort to cover up something he did, as it is to maintain control over information that he's unsure what actually happened (and doesn't want others getting that info before him).

A few isolated cases of attempts at fraud, that seem to have been carried out by individuals without knowledge of the party leadership, that had minimal or no overall impact on actual election results.

It is, to me, not so much an indication of problems in Canada's system, as it is an indication of just how well controlled and monitored our elections are that this is the biggest scandal facing us. In the U.S., there were scandals that literally impacted who finally got chosen as the President of the country...that's major. In Canada, we've got small local elections where the aggrieved party still won by a significant majority.

Absolutely, this needs to be investigated. Absolutely, those responsible need to be identified, and punished.

But let's keep some perspective here, folks. As far as voting scandals go, in most countries, this wouldn't even register as mildly unusual.


ETA: And can we please get rid of Harper?!?
 
Harper absolutely should have called for an independent investigation immediately; and some of his nonsense (such as insisting that Liberals should make all information about who they called public, but saying that the Conservatives don't need to) really goes beyond acceptable. But that's just the way the man is...he's a control freak who does everything he can to ensure that any information related to his own party is thoroughly controlled by him. (Witness the current debate over federally funded science research being controlled by the Conservatives, with scientists unable to comment publicly or publish their research without first being vetted by the gov't). I don't think it is so much an effort to cover up something he did, as it is to maintain control over information that he's unsure what actually happened (and doesn't want others getting that info before him).



My take on this is, no matter what effect this ultimately had, Harper's response has shown he's unfit to be PM. There are times when he should be the leader of his party, and there are times when he should be the leader of his country, and this was one of the latter.

That he is either incapable of or unwilling to understand that is the most worrying part of this whole affair. It sends the signal that he cares more about his party than he does the integrity of the electoral process, which is the ultimate source of the Government's legitimacy. If people lose faith in the electoral process, we're screwed. His first, last and only response to this should have to been to direct Elections Canada and the RCMP to get to the bottom of this, no matter where it might lead, and to tell every single person connected to the Conservative Party to cooperate with that investigation in every manner possible, with no delay or obstruction.
 
Let me begin by saying that I can't stand Harper, and would love to see him and the Conservatives taken out of power. That being said...

...I think there's an awful lot of partisan hyperbole here. There are no indications whatsoever that this was part of a national strategy, or that the party leadership either knew about or endorsed such actions. It seems much more likely to me to be the result of actions by local idiots, without the knowledge or permission of the party leadership.

In addition, while such tactics are shameful, they don't seem to have had any significant impact on the actual results (in Hamilton, where the most serious case seems to have been, the Liberals won by quite a significant margin). There is no evidence whatsoever that there's anyone who won a seat fraudulently.

Harper absolutely should have called for an independent investigation immediately; and some of his nonsense (such as insisting that Liberals should make all information about who they called public, but saying that the Conservatives don't need to) really goes beyond acceptable. But that's just the way the man is...he's a control freak who does everything he can to ensure that any information related to his own party is thoroughly controlled by him. (Witness the current debate over federally funded science research being controlled by the Conservatives, with scientists unable to comment publicly or publish their research without first being vetted by the gov't). I don't think it is so much an effort to cover up something he did, as it is to maintain control over information that he's unsure what actually happened (and doesn't want others getting that info before him).

A few isolated cases of attempts at fraud, that seem to have been carried out by individuals without knowledge of the party leadership, that had minimal or no overall impact on actual election results.

It is, to me, not so much an indication of problems in Canada's system, as it is an indication of just how well controlled and monitored our elections are that this is the biggest scandal facing us. In the U.S., there were scandals that literally impacted who finally got chosen as the President of the country...that's major. In Canada, we've got small local elections where the aggrieved party still won by a significant majority.

Absolutely, this needs to be investigated. Absolutely, those responsible need to be identified, and punished.

But let's keep some perspective here, folks. As far as voting scandals go, in most countries, this wouldn't even register as mildly unusual.


ETA: And can we please get rid of Harper?!?

I agree with most of your post..... except the part about Harper. As far as prime ministers go I think he's doing a very good job.

Actually I don't agree with all of your post. Why call an independent inquiry? The matter is being investigated, you don't need a big waste of tax payer money spent on a big independent inquiry.
 
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My take on this is, no matter what effect this ultimately had, Harper's response has shown he's unfit to be PM.
I'd agree with you 100%...with the caveat that he's demonstrated his unfitness long before this particular affair.

I agree with most of your post..... except the part about Harper. As far as prime ministers go I think he's doing a very good job.
No Prime Minister in history has shrouded their government in as much secrecy as Harper does. Scientists are not allowed to publish papers or talk to the media without gov't approval. Proroguing parliament specifically to avoid legitimate debate and discussion that he finds uncomfortable or embarassing. Refusing to hand over information legally required under Freedom of Information laws, and fighting in the courts for years even when those courts rule against him. In fact, I don't think there's been any party in recent history that has had as many of their decisions overturned by Canadian courts as the Harper government has.

A proper democracy operates best through transparency, and rule of law. A government that tells us what they are doing, and makes all relevant information publicly available; not a government that seeks to use every bureaucratic and procedural loophole to keep everything hidden; not a government that acts in defiance of Canadian law and the rulings of Canadian courts.

It is fundamentally disgusting that we even need to take our own government to court, just to get access to information that previous governments have provided willingly. It is even more disgusting that Harper is seeking to introduce new policies that will increase his ability to act in secrecy.

Actually I don't agree with all of your post. Why call an independent inquiry? The matter is being investigated, you don't need a big waste of tax payer money spent on a big independent inquiry.
Okay then...how about this...Harper's claim that Liberals should make their their call records public, but stating that Conservatives have no need to do so...despite the fact that the most serious violations thus far are at the hands of Conservative operatives? You may wish to argue against an independent inquiry...but how the hell can you argue against such a blatant (if predictable) effort to once again cover up or hide information? If the man is really interested in having the truth come out, why not volunteer to make that information public...especially when he's calling on other parties to do so?

The man is a wannabe-despot.
 
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