Canada V's USA

[lifegazer]

I am reading your posts guys, so don't think your efforts are wasted. I'm quite fascinated to be honest and thank you all for taking the time to post.
We weren't taught anything (that I can remember) about North American history/politics, at school. Though I didn't do history at a high level.
It amazes me how/why things are so different either side of the
US/Canada border when the formation of those countries seems to have been by people from the same part of the world.

Also, I've often wondered why Britain gave/allowed national status to all of her discoveries/conquests (particularly the discoveries). Perhaps if Britain had incorporated each of those territories into 'The United States of Britain', treating each member state and it's populace with equal respect, the British Empire would still cover a quarter (rough guess) of the globe. Indeed, it would probably have grown and grown.
Que sera sera.

By the way, what is the criteria for becoming a member-state of the USA?

 

[Jorghnassen]

Thanks for the responses. Interesting stuff.

About Canada...
Do French Canadians hate/dislike other Canadians (and vice versa), and does Quebec want independence? If so, will it ever get it?

OK, few things. French Canadian designates any Canadian citizen whose main or native language is French. IIRC there's about 1 million of them outside of Quebec (similarly, there's about 1 million Quebeckers whose mother tongue/language of use isn't French). On a side note, Canadien used to refer to the French speaking population of the country, and the Canada of the national anthem refers exclusively to Quebec in the original complete text.

Second, though some individuals (with diverse political allegiance or point of view) might feel various levels of resentment towards some particular subsets of the population, it is presumptuous to generalize and hyperbolize this to a widespread hatred or dislike.

As far as Quebec independence goes, it's more complicated. There is a small subset of the population who definitely wants out of the confederation, and another small subset who adamantly wants to stay in Canada as it is. The vast majority of the population is much more ambivalent. Of those, there are really two types: those who wouldn't mind Quebec to be its own country (the ones who are "on the fence"), and those who wouldn't mind staying in Canada (they would never vote for split the country but are not against particular status/powers for Quebec within the confederation). Given this ambivalence, it's hard to say whether the province will actually ever achieve sovereignty rather than just more independence from the federal government (though within Canada).

 

[ReFLeX]

Two Canada threads! Wow.

http://www.canadians.ca/top20.htm

Who the hell is Romeo Dallaire?

Randfan, what do you mean "pronounce 'u'?" If it's about "aboot", I've never once heard anyone say that.

...I'm just going from memory here. I live in Ottawa, so certain things stuck out at me.
So why do Americans make fun of Canadians? Same reason as they make fun of everybody else: stereotyping. I don't find they single us out at all. We're hockey and beer; Australians are crocodiles and kangaroos.

Orwell, why is Quebec so obviously different? Other than the big bunch of francophones and wacky language laws, what are we talking about here?

Charlie, while I find your sentiment about resentful French Canadians to be common around here, I have yet to meet any personally. I did see some talking to Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, but I could easily believe he brought that upon himself. However. On my first day at Ottawa U it was explained to me that most Ottawa people are nice, except some of the French ones, who are bitter that they have to learn to cope with English while we can get along with no French at all. Sounded plausible to me, since most North Americans have a schema for a snotty French person. But where are they? I'm entering third year and most every person who speaks French is in fact bilingual and polite about it.

...oh yeah, the other thing that bugged me. The identity crisis. Canadian media is a hell of a lot more concerned about this than the Canadians are. Which is why we sometimes have to put up with crappy television shows and other "distinctly Canadian" junk. The highest grossing Canadian film ever? This.

...yup.

 

[Orwell]

Who the hell is Romeo Dallaire?

http://ifpafletchercambridge.info/oldsite/speakers/dallaire.htm

He was in Rwanda during the genocide.

Orwell, why is Quebec so obviously different? Other than the big bunch of francophones and wacky language laws, what are we talking about here?

Spend a day in Montreal (east of St-Laurent Street) or in Quebec City. I'm pretty sure that you will feel like you've visited a different country.

 

[CapelDodger]

Two Canada threads! Wow.

It's the game-plan. Canada prepares. Forms alliances. Stays out of the limelight. Politely. Establishes a stranglehold on New England electricity supplies. While the US is tangled in Iraq Canada wins a quick war against Denmark and, on the back of a patriotic surge, occupies New England with the assistance of an anti-American liberal fifth-column. The red-state remainder, having been alerted by the increased Canadian chatter on JREF forums, mobilises rapidly against the Cannuck threat only to be taken in the rear by the Mexico-Arnie Restitution Front, funded by Hollywood and gay drug-money.

It's an old trick, but none the worse for that.

 

[RandFan]

Two Canada threads! Wow.

http://www.canadians.ca/top20.htm

Who the hell is Romeo Dallaire?

Randfan, what do you mean "pronounce 'u'?" If it's about "aboot", I've never once heard anyone say that.

Hey, we're talking stereotypes here. Get with the program.

"I don't know what you're talking aboot." "We have ways of making you say the letter 'u,' pal."
-- Steven Wright and Kevin J. O'Connor, Canadian Bacon

 

[ReFLeX]

http://ifpafletchercambridge.info/oldsite/speakers/dallaire.htm

He was in Rwanda during the genocide.

He may have been very noble, but he is not more famous than Shania Twain or even Neil Young... it's just a fact.

Spend a day in Montreal (east of St-Laurent Street) or in Quebec City. I'm pretty sure that you will feel like you've visited a different country.

Err, I did, and uh, I didn't [feel like that]... I went on an exchange in the 6th grade to Joliette and lived with a francophone family. The one thing that struck me most about it is that I didn't need to know a whit about French. The popular music is largely english, all the food packaging had english on it and damn near every Quebec student in the exchange could communicate in english. It was my first time away from home and I didn't feel like an outsider at all. I would say the culture is more different historically than presently. I've visited Quebec City a number of times, and again I found the culture promoted to tourists to be distinct, but generally the language was the main difference. Err, and the traffic lights. Which goes back to the question I asked: what are we talking about here? I don't know everything about Quebec. Could you be more specific?
...also, where did you move from?

 

[ReFLeX]

Hey, we're talking stereotypes here. Get with the program.

"I don't know what you're talking aboot." "We have ways of making you say the letter 'u,' pal."
-- Steven Wright and Kevin J. O'Connor, Canadian Bacon

Of course, but I can at least understand the beer and the hockey...

 

[RandFan]

Of course, but I can at least understand the beer and the hockey...

Take off, eh! --Bob and Doug McKenzie

 

[Jorghnassen]

He may have been very noble, but he is not more famous than Shania Twain or even Neil Young... it's just a fact.
Err, I did, and uh, I didn't [feel like that]... I went on an exchange in the 6th grade to Joliette and lived with a francophone family. The one thing that struck me most about it is that I didn't need to know a whit about French. The popular music is largely english, all the food packaging had english on it and damn near every Quebec student in the exchange could communicate in english. It was my first time away from home and I didn't feel like an outsider at all. I would say the culture is more different historically than presently. I've visited Quebec City a number of times, and again I found the culture promoted to tourists to be distinct, but generally the language was the main difference. Err, and the traffic lights. Which goes back to the question I asked: what are we talking about here? I don't know everything about Quebec. Could you be more specific?
...also, where did you move from?

Culturally, true there's pop music in English, American movies (dubbed) but... Quebec also produces a lot of its own stuff, from music, movies, TV shows (especially TV shows), newspapers, books. It has its own star system (as in celebrities) that isn't a subset of the US star system. Don't confuse the American cultural hegemony over the world to a common ROC/Quebec culture, or the fact that Quebec's influence has been shaping and defining Canadian policies and views for a long time. If 6th grade kids have decent English skills, it's part of the curriculum.

 

[Art Vandelay]

As far as I know, Congress can admit anyone to the Union that they want.

ReFLeX: as far as the "u" thing, I definitely have heard it, although obviously Americans exaggerate it. Perhaps you don't consider the pronunciation to be "aboot" because you pronounce "aboot" differently as well. Minnesotans also pronounce "u" oddly, but not quite as much.

 

[tedly]

I

(1) Why do two countries exist instead of one? (Why isn't Canada part of the USA, or the USA part of Canada?)
... I'm guessing that it has something to do with the French. Could be wrong though!
(

Any information that anyone has regarding the division between Canada/USA will interest me.
Cheers.

This survey Fire and Ice was taken over a 15 year period in NA. The results were published a couple of years ago under that title.

The axes of the final graph are those that best divide out USA'ans. Canadians are then placed on that map. Generally Americans live to the NW of the origin, and Canadians to the SW.

The book is a very good read, and argues that Canadians and Americans are quite different in social attitudes, and becoming more different over the past 15 years.

In one factoid: the response to the statement "The man should be the head of the household", agreement in the US ranged from over 70% in the SE to 40 or so in New Emgland. The highest value in Canada was 25% in Alberta (Texas N) to about 15% in Quebec. And yes Quebec is the most liberal culture in NA.

(On the survey I end up down in the extreme bottom RH corner. Your mileage...)

O, and Romeo Dallaire for Governor General. It's gotta be.

 

[Orwell]

He may have been very noble, but he is not more famous than Shania Twain or even Neil Young... it's just a fact.
Err, I did, and uh, I didn't [feel like that]... I went on an exchange in the 6th grade to Joliette and lived with a francophone family. The one thing that struck me most about it is that I didn't need to know a whit about French. The popular music is largely english, all the food packaging had english on it and damn near every Quebec student in the exchange could communicate in english. It was my first time away from home and I didn't feel like an outsider at all. I would say the culture is more different historically than presently. I've visited Quebec City a number of times, and again I found the culture promoted to tourists to be distinct, but generally the language was the main difference. Err, and the traffic lights. Which goes back to the question I asked: what are we talking about here? I don't know everything about Quebec. Could you be more specific?
...also, where did you move from?

Sometimes I wish Quebecers were a little less accommodating... Well, it is a different language, and a different culture, with it's own history, although it is, without a doubt, North American. They watch their own TV channels and shows, they have their own artists, their own star system, their own cultural references... Most Quebecers know quite a lot about the politics of their province, and next to nothing about what's going on in the rest of Canada. They speak french, but with their own accent and slang. More importantly, Quebecers usually think of themselves as Quebecers first, Canadians second. Many don't even think of themselves as Canadian. They feel like they form a nation. For a long time, this "nation" was defined along ethnic lines (you had to be a descendent of the french colonisers to be a true blue Quebecer), but lately this definition has changed to more of a territorial thing i.e. a Quebecer is someone who lives in Quebec.

 

[Hutch]

By the way, what is the criteria for becoming a member-state of the USA?

Article IV, Section III of the US Constitution reads:

Section. 3.

Clause 1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

IIRC, a territory needed to have enough population to set up a government and have a constitution, then could petition the Congress for admittance as a State. There would be an enabling Act and then a Admitting Act (sometimes both together) passed by Congress and that was that.

Of course, West Virginia sorta made a hash out of this in 1862-1864, but I'll leave that exercise to shanek, I'll know how much he would enjoy it...

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

Charlie, while I find your sentiment about resentful French Canadians to be common around here, I have yet to meet any personally.

Ahh, I do miss Ottawa. I should point out that I've been out of Canada since 1995 (except for occasional visits). My observation of some racist Quebecers is only a handful of them out of hundreds who are great people. This comes on the tail-end of a couple of seperation referendums and emotions were running high on both sides.

My favorite Quebec racist was this one dude hired by the federal government to teach French to English civil servants. Imagine going into work every day and hating your clients/students (but happily accepting a pay cheque)?

Charlie (J'aime Le Quebec) Monoxide

 

[ReFLeX]

Sometimes I wish Quebecers were a little less accommodating...

...But you have to admit, the language laws are pretty kooky.

 

[AmateurScientist]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Canada V's USA

AS, you forget I'm you're next door neighbor down here and am aware of the UAH Chargers and the pros (what league and team name are they playing under this year?) down at the VB Center.
At least they keep the Medical Center busy treating players after the fights that break out every, oh, 6-7 minutes in the minors....

But there hasn't been snow on the ground here since I got back in 2003 and let's be honest, if we ever got 2-3" of the stuff, this state would shut down

No, I remember, and I'm sure you're aware of the hockey here. I was trying to inform our neighbors on the board.

Of course, you're right that 2-3" does shut the city down. Perhaps you haven't been here long enough, but we do indeed get a few inches of accumulation from time to time. There have been 6" and 12" snows here. They are not common, but they do occur. The worst since I've been alive was in 1993. It was a bona fide blizzard and was quite surreal.

AS

 

[Orwell]

...But you have to admit, the language laws are pretty kooky.

I don't think they're kooky, considering the historical context, but that's another debate, and I don't want to go into it...

 

[Bearguin]

Two things.

1. Regarding Quebec. I live out west (B.C.) and my opinion is that I don't mind Quebec and would prefer them to be a part of Canada, but not at any price. My problem is more with the Federal gov't and what they force on the rest of Canada to appease Quebec. There is no real rational reason for everything I buy to have both English and French on the labels. And, in Vancouver, I'd expect a Chinese dialect before French based on the population. Quebec is distinct and I have no problem with that. But the feds try to shove that done the throats of the rest of Canada.

2. Regarding the US. Why would I want to be apart of the US? I may not agree with what our Gov't does, but they are in better shape in a lot of ways from the US gov't. We have less debt per capita, no federal deficit so the situation is imrpoving and we don't go running around the globe killing people.

I'm happy to be a Canadian and don't need to bash Americans to stay that way (but it is so easy to do).