Canada may exit Kyoto pact to save $$$$$

[bikerdruid]

Do you agree that the ways in which each individual can reduce their carbon footprint differ based on circumstances? (I ask mainly because other posters seem to have assumed that you do not agree to that).

Finally, do you think that the sum total of such reasonably possible choices is enough that there is no need to alter our energy generation infrastructure? Do you think that if we make these sorts of improvements in efficiency we can reduce our national carbon footprint to the point that nuclear, for instance, is no longer necessary?
Because while I am all for such improvements in efficiency, I don't.

absolutely.
even person is an individual and has differing needs.
any step that anyone makes, to reduce waste is valuable.
i have just held myself to tighter standards, contrary to the thinking of some.

i wish we could all reduce our needs so that nuclear power was redundant.
however, in the real world, corporate greed and the lust for war and oil will negate much of the good that individuals can accomplish.

 

[Stout]

Speaking of carbon footprints, check this out.

CANADIAN YOUTH EJECTED FROM COP17

Yep, six activists jumped on planes flew 10 000 miles, just to pull a cheap political stunt. So what have we got, A couple of hundred gallons of fuel per person for the round trip flight, times 6 people gives a whopping 1200 gallons of fuel squandered to go protest...wait for it...extracting and burning fossil fuels.

Digging a little deeper we find these six are just the tip of the iceberg. Turns out there is a total of 19 "activists" on this junket burning up at minimum, 3800 gallons, or for the non Americans, 15 000 liters.

How much carbon dioxide did this trip to the conference produce ? I don't know but it's safe to assume that it's enough to warm the arctic enough and cause the drowning of at least one baby polar bear.

So, lets recap, burning fossil fuels to protest other people burning fossil fuels is good. Baby polar bears are bad. And people wonder why I'm so critical of activists.

Now if we compare an activist who treads lightly on the Earth and urges other people to do the same with these douchenozzles who deem it necessary to tread the earth with a carbon footprint the size of Godzilla's, I know who I'm going to draw my inspiration from.

 

[bit_pattern]

**** you Canada!

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

**** you Yoko!

 

[WildCat]

**** you Canada!

You move to a place that gets to -30F in the winter and see how much carbon you burn to stay warm.

 

[bikerdruid]

You move to a place that gets to -30F in the winter and see how much carbon you burn to stay warm.

in the winter up here i have seen -58 C.
every winter it gets to at least -40 C
-40 is that special place where C is the same as F.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

**** you Canada!

Right back at you.

 

[Furcifer]

in the winter up here i have seen -58 C.
every winter it gets to at least -40 C
-40 is that special place where C is the same as F.

I call shenanigans. I've been in the situation where I've had to rely on an airtight furnace to keep me warm in -50C and it's "survivable" not "livable" and within a 300 ft² room.

Your stories are adding up to what you're claiming them to be. If you live in a cabin that you keep warm with the dead fall you find you live in a 300 ft² cabin. 1 room, no indoor plumbing.

I don't mind being proved wrong, but anyone who has lived and hunted in Canada knows you're just not telling the whole story right now. Please, prove me wrong, it wouldn't be the first time this thread.

 

[bikerdruid]

I call shenanigans. I've been in the situation where I've had to rely on an airtight furnace to keep me warm in -50C and it's "survivable" not "livable" and within a 300 ft² room.

Your stories are adding up to what you're claiming them to be. If you live in a cabin that you keep warm with the dead fall you find you live in a 300 ft² cabin. 1 room, no indoor plumbing.

I don't mind being proved wrong, but anyone who has lived and hunted in Canada knows you're just not telling the whole story right now. Please, prove me wrong, it wouldn't be the first time this thread.

you don't know much about life in the north, eh?
you'd best back down now before you embarrass yourself.

 

[Ziggurat]

i wish we could all reduce our needs so that nuclear power was redundant.

I wish I had a billion dollars.

however, in the real world, corporate greed and the lust for war and oil will negate much of the good that individuals can accomplish.

I thought corporations weren't people. How can they have emotions like greed and lust?

Your problem isn't with corporations, it's with people. People never actually behave the way communists want them to. At least, not without using a lot of violence to get them to act that way.

 

[WildCat]

I call shenanigans. I've been in the situation where I've had to rely on an airtight furnace to keep me warm in -50C and it's "survivable" not "livable" and within a 300 ft² room.

Your stories are adding up to what you're claiming them to be. If you live in a cabin that you keep warm with the dead fall you find you live in a 300 ft² cabin. 1 room, no indoor plumbing.

I don't mind being proved wrong, but anyone who has lived and hunted in Canada knows you're just not telling the whole story right now. Please, prove me wrong, it wouldn't be the first time this thread.

Not that it gets anywhere near that cold here, but 30 years ago my dad got tired of high heating bills (they had an electric furnace) and built a wood-burning furnace, basically 2 55 gallon drums on top of each other connected at one end, the other end of the to barrel connected to the chimney. It was right next to our furnace, so by just leaving the furnace fan on it would suck in the warm air around the wood burning barrels and distribute it throughout the house. The house stayed much warmer than we ran the electric furnace at, and this house was ~2500sf with a full basement. He'd burn wood scraps from construction sites, as well as the occasional dead tree he'd find in a vacant lot somewhere.

Heated the house like that for about 10 years, then finally had a gas furnace put in. The new neighbors complained about the smoke, plus he was probably tired of scrounging up wood.

 

[bikerdruid]

I wish I had a billion dollars.



I thought corporations weren't people. How can they have emotions like greed and lust?

Your problem isn't with corporations, it's with people. People never actually behave the way communists want them to. At least, not without using a lot of violence to get them to act that way.

wow...now this thread is going to attack my politics?
relevance?
don't you people have some little children you can bully?

so now you find it worthless to work for a better future?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

however, in the real world, corporate greed and the lust for war and oil will negate much of the good that individuals can accomplish.

I don't share your belief that the liberation of Iraq and Afghanistan was all about oil.

But let's assume for the sake of argument that you are correct. Now take a shovel, don't move from where you are, just start digging. Once you hit bedrock, hack out a one meter cube of that rock. Within that cubic metre of rock, you will find between 12 to 15 grams of Thorium. This is enough to supply all the energy needs of an average US citizen for about ten years (for your energy usage, BD it would last about 20 to 30 years, for eco-activist Al Gore, something like 6 months).

If we converted to a nuclear economy, it would end your "wars for oil". The United States alone, has enough Uranium sitting in storage yards, already mined and refined, to fuel their energy needs for roughly 3,000 years. There is no need, nor will there be, for anyone to step outside their borders and into someone elses for juice to run their 50 inch plasma screens or SUVs.

 

[bit_pattern]

You move to a place that gets to -30F in the winter and see how much carbon you burn to stay warm.

You don't need to mine tar-sand fields to "stay warm", nor would the proposed measures deny Canada the right to "keep warm" by burning fossil fuels, but nice try at building a straw man anyway. You get points for effort.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You don't need to mine tar-sand fields to "stay warm", but nice try anyway.

There are ways to reduce the carbon footprint of Oil Sands recovery.

There are more constructive ways to help implement these than "@#$% you Canada".

 

[bit_pattern]

I don't share your belief that the liberation of Iraq and Afghanistan was all about oil.

But let's assume for the sake of argument that you are correct. Now take a shovel, don't move from where you are, just start digging. Once you hit bedrock, hack out a one meter cube of that rock. Within that cubic metre of rock, you will find between 12 to 15 grams of Thorium. This is enough to supply all the energy needs of an average US citizen for about ten years (for your energy usage, BD it would last about 20 to 30 years, for eco-activist Al Gore, something like 6 months).

If we converted to a nuclear economy, it would end your "wars for oil". The United States alone, has enough Uranium sitting in storage yards, already mined and refined, to fuel their energy needs for roughly 3,000 years. There is no need, nor will there be, for anyone to step outside their borders and into someone elses for juice to run their 50 inch plasma screens or SUVs.

Ah, the silver bullet! See, if only those greenies would stop complaining then we'd be living in a thorium wonderland by now

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Ah, the silver bullet! See, if only those greenies would stop complaining then we'd be living in a thorium wonderland by now

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[bit_pattern]

There are ways to reduce the carbon footprint of Oil Sands recovery.

There are more constructive ways to help implement these than "@#$% you Canada".

Just burning the oil contained in the sands alone will be enough to tip the climate five times over, if Canada does indeed develop it to its full extent. But, hey, since when have we ever let long term sustainability get in the way of a quick buck today!

 

[bit_pattern]

Yeah, pretty much.

No. The reason thorium has never taken off are due to the considerable technical and economic challenges it faces and the sheer fact that it is cheaper to mine and fission uranium and plutonium than thorium.

For instance, the NNL in the UK can hardly be described as tree hugging green fascists, yet they are distinctly underwhelmed by the claims made pro-thorium lobby.

http://ripassetseu.s3.amazonaws.com...__1314092891_Thorium_Cycle_Position_Paper.pdf

The lobby is essentially a cover for expanding the uranium cycle, as any breeder reactor requires considerable amounts of U-235 (which generates considerable amounts of waste, contrary to the 'clean' claims made by the lobby).

I have no problem with nuclear being part of the energy mix but this idea that it is a panacea is deeply flawed. The time it would take to get commercially viable breeder reactors online in any significant number to reduce emissions it will be far too late. We solutions online over the next decade.

 

[Roboramma]

I have no problem with nuclear being part of the energy mix but this idea that it is a panacea is deeply flawed. The time it would take to get commercially viable breeder reactors online in any significant number to reduce emissions it will be far too late. We solutions online over the next decade.

Then perhaps we should be devoting resources to starting now rather than worrying about the (very minor compared to the alternative) waste issues, etc.

Sure, let's try ensure that nuclear is as safe and clean as possible, but let's also realise that the option isn't "build this nuclear power station or do nothing", it's "build this nuclear power station or keep burning dirty coal", and when looked at in that light, (which is the reality of the situation) the necessary economic and environmental decision is clear.