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Can you stop drinking?

nosho said:
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Even so, we have to recognize that our own behavior will influence others. Particularly if we are parents. When we drink in front of our children, we are teaching them to drink.
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I think the european model of children being introduced to alcohol by their families in a controlled setting (glass of wine with dinner, a small glass of shandy on a hot afternoon) is more sensible than pretending alcohol doesn't exist until your children are 21. (It just seems more sensible to me - I don't have any evidence that it's better to hand...)
 
nosho said:
You never know.
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I get a benefit from drinking. Why should I forbid myself that on the offchance that I might deny somebody else the same benefit?

Seriously, if I'm sitting in a pub drinking Coke there is approximately zero chance that anyone else there will say "richardm certainly is enjoying that Coke. I renounce drink and all its works".
 
nosho said:
You never know.
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You could make that argument about virtually anything, not driving (may encourage others not to and reduce car deaths), not eating chocolate (could encourage others not to and reduce the effects of diabetes), don't have sex (may reduce the spread of STDs) etc. What would we end up with? A unbelievably tedious world is my guess.
 
Terry said:
I think the european model of children being introduced to alcohol by their families in a controlled setting (glass of wine with dinner, a small glass of shandy on a hot afternoon) is more sensible than pretending alcohol doesn't exist until your children are 21. (It just seems more sensible to me - I don't have any evidence that it's better to hand...)
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You're right. It's much better to set an example of moderate drinking than to allow kids to make poor choices out of ignorance.

In my opinion, an even more sensible approach is not to drink, and to explain to your children why you don't, and to let them make their own choice when they are old enough.

You can still do all those other things in a controlled setting, even if you personally do not drink.
 
richardm said:
Some people watch television then go out and imitate what they've seen, sometimes with dreadful results. Would you advocate banning television as well?
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No, I wouldn't advocate banning television.

I also would not advocate banning alcohol.

If someone chooses to stop watching television, however, I would applaud that decision.
 
Mid said:
You could make that argument about virtually anything, not driving (may encourage others not to and reduce car deaths), not eating chocolate (could encourage others not to and reduce the effects of diabetes), don't have sex (may reduce the spread of STDs) etc. What would we end up with? A unbelievably tedious world is my guess.
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That's right. We have to make realistic choices. I think it's realistic to choose not to drink alcohol.
 
nosho said:
No, I wouldn't advocate banning television.

I also would not advocate banning alcohol.

If someone chooses to stop watching television, however, I would applaud that decision.
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Okay - 'ban' was the wrong word.

Why would you applaud someone choosing to stop watching television? This child would have died without television. Won't somebody think of the children? ;)
 
nosho said:
[soapbox]

Every alcoholic starts with just one drink. Every drunken-driving death starts with just one drink.

But the social reality in most cases is that when you drink, you encourage others to drink. When you drink, you teach your children to drink. When you drink, through your example you invite others to engage in an activity that, for some of them, will become harmful. Even deadly.
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Your words imply that everytime someone drinks, it's likely to turn deadly. Every night, hundred of thousands (millions?) of people go out (or stay in) and drink. And each night, 99.999% of those people finish the night safely.

When we drink, the social reality is that it doesn't affect just us. It effects everyone around us, too.
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And when we walk out the door, the social reality is that it doesn't just affect us; it affects everyone around us too. Shall we all stay inside?
 
nosho said:
That's right. We have to make realistic choices. I think it's realistic to choose not to drink alcohol.
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Surely it depends on a case by case basis? If for instance you have an easily influenced friend who is an alcoholic I would agree that not dragging them to the pub to see you get drunk could be a good idea. However a glass of wine with your meal is a completely different situation and I really can't see the harm if you or I wished to have one. My point being that the context of the drinking is more important on any negative effects than drinking per seems and completely abstaining (for no other reason) seems extreme.
 
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nosho said:
Mel Gibson's case illustrates why the smartest choice is not to drink alcohol at all.
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Mel Gibson's case is an isolated incident in no way indicative of the general state of affairs.
As a society, we have a drinking problem
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People have drinking problems, among other pressing issues. It is impossible for society to have a drinking problem as the term is defined, since society is not a single organism capable of drinking anything. In the way you're using it, society has a guns and ice cream problem, too.
There's evidence that drinking alcohol is harmful to ourself and those around us
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There's evidence that alcohol can have beneficial effects, neutral effects and negative effects. Just like guns and ice cream.
Alcohol does something to your brain.
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Ice cream does something to your brain, it involves dopamine.
Guns do things to your brain (aside from the obvious physical effect of getting shot) in that people who train with guns increase focus awareness. There are also studies concerning gun use and testosterone.
People suffer tremendously as a direct consequence of drinking alcohol or being around people who drink alcohol.
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SOME people suffer tremendously as a direct consequence of drinking / ice cream / guns or being around people who use alcohol / ice cream / guns.
Every alcoholic starts with just one drink. Every drunken-driving death starts with just one drink.
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Every morbidly obese person starts with just one ice cream.
Every serial killer starts with buying just one gun.

See? Over generalization of an issue can be fun and educational. I do believe I haven't had a drink of anything in the last month. I'll pour myself a glass of scotch in your honor. Then I'll start a war over ice cream.
 
When I was a student, I drank like a fish. I was actually known for it. Those times were very depressing to me for one reason and another, and this was how I coped. I typically got through thirty pints of lager a week (real lager, not watered down weak stuff), plus a liter and a half of whiskey. Semi-permanent drunkenness (is that a word?) was my way of life. More than once I got drunk enough to black out, woke up the next day in a pool of my own vomit. Since I was lying on my back, I was lucky I hadn't choked to death in the night. That was a bit of a wake up call.

After I stopped being a student I cut way the hell back; eventually I cut back to the point where I drank precisely eight pints a week, four on Friday night, four on Saturday night. Did that for, oh, ten years or so.

At my very worst, I never did any harm to any other person because of my drinking. I'm a good drunk; I remain pretty much functional, enough to get myself home and put myself to bed. No aggression, no vandalism (I did go through a phase of collecting traffic cones), no abuse to anybody else. The very worst effect alcohol has on me is that in quantity it tends to make me rather depressed, which is my problem and nobody else's.

Last January I went on the Atkins diet, so no more lager for me and I can't really stomach spirits any more. So I went teetotal. I miss lager, I miss it a lot, and when I have breaks from the diet (which I do for one weekend, about every other month), I drink lager again. But going without is not hard, not in the least.

There are those who claim that when you say "I only drink a bit, I could go without if I wanted, I just don't want to" are fooling themselves. Well I AM that guy, and I DID give up when I wanted to, and it was really not a big deal.
 
I'm working on it, I joined AAA.

Anyway, what exactly do you propose we do to keep these degenerates from drinking?
 
Absolutely. Alcohol has never really been my cup 'o tea anyway. In terms of the sensation you get from it, alcohol is one of the worst drugs. It really boggles my mind that people can get addicted to it.
 
nosho said:
I realize almost nobody is going to agree with this position.

Even if you disagree, check out the links in the OP. They're interesting.

Cheers.
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Well the reason for the disagreement is that the statement you made is balderdash.

You know, I have a real problem. It's with smug gits who like to preach about things for everyone's "good". When I turned 18 I gained the right to decide, within the law, what I consider to be good. I decide what I like to do and what I don't and I make my trade offs. I like to ride motorcycles for example - I realize that this is riskier than driving a car and it is something I elect to do because it enhances my own life.

I like drinking beer on a Friday evening on the east deck of my house and watching the shades of night come down while having a talk and a laugh with friends.

I enjoy getting loud and raucous in a bar watching England play (except for when it goes to penalties) and if that alcohol consumption comes at a price, I'm willing to pay it.

So if you don't want to drink - don't. I wont come round to your house and pour beer down your neck if you will stay the **** away from my house and my beer and my friends.
 
richardm said:
I like drink. And because I do it in moderation, it's apparently quite good for me. So stopping isn't doing me any favours. In this country at least we have hundreds of years of culture steeped in drink, so I doubt if my stopping drinking will encourage anyone else to stop. So it's a lose-lose situation.

Whose round is it anyway? I bought the last one.
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round of applause for a fellow bibarian!!

My shout..
 
nosho said:
I realize almost nobody is going to agree with this position.
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I agree that alcohol is harmful to a great number of people. Clearly it is a significant public health issue.

And sheesh, from some of the responses one might think you advocated prohibition. :confused:
 
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