Can the Republican party be saved?

[Segnosaur]

Are the Democrats really any better off? Like it or not, a whole lot of why we have a Trump Presidency was due to Democratic pro Hillary complacency. It was assumed she would win so many stayed home and didnt vote. Now they are some of the loudest anti Trump whiners.

Since this they have not taken personal responsibility for the fact imo, Bernie was the better Candidate at the time, and they blocked him in favor of another Clinton, which really wasn't any better a choice.

Keep in mind that the subject of this thread wasn't just about winning elections; it was about the corruption of the Republican party. (Their willingness to engage in racist policies, the influence on the party by foreign entities like Russia, the use of dirty tricks such as gerrymandering, voter suppression, and obstructionism, their willingness to ignore illegal and/or immoral behavior in their party.)

At this point, there is no comparison between the Democrats and Republicans in this regard.... The republicans have gone off the deep end, and whatever minor scandals the Democrats have had pale in comparison to what the Republicans are doing. So the question is: Can the Republicans get rid of some or all of the corruption that has infiltrated their party. (Right now, the answer seems to be 'no'. The infection has been allowed to fester far too long.)

Secondly... if you want to talk about electoral success: yes, Clinton lost the last election. Yes it was due in part to the Democrats (their leaders and the voters) being too complacent. But then, they also lost in part because of Russian interference. But, that was just one election. Long term, there are certain things that favor their party: Demographic shifts (minorities making up a larger part of the electorate) and the migration of people from rural to urban areas will hopefully give them more chance of success in future elections. The question then becomes whether those changes will be enough to overcome the dirty tricks that the Republicans engage in (such as accepting Russian assistance, voter suppression.)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Are the Democrats really any better off? Like it or not, a whole lot of why we have a Trump Presidency was due to Democratic pro Hillary complacency. It was assumed she would win so many stayed home and didnt vote. Now they are some of the loudest anti Trump whiners.

Since this they have not taken personal responsibility for the fact imo, Bernie was the better Candidate at the time, and they blocked him in favor of another Clinton, which really wasn't any better a choice.

It's off topic so I will only say, your version of reality doesn't match the evidence. It does, however, demonstrate you probably drank the Russian koolaid.

 

[Babbylonian]

It's off topic so I will only say, your version of reality doesn't match the evidence. It does, however, demonstrate you probably drank the Russian koolaid.

You're right. He didn't even mention the millions of illegal votes for Hillary.

 

[Tony]

I want to say no, but the facts of the entrenched two-party system ensures that the Republican Party or a party like it will live on.

 

[WilliamSeger]

I want to say no, but the facts of the entrenched two-party system ensures that the Republican Party or a party like it will live on.

I don't think Republican Party owners will have any trouble renouncing and disowning Trump if he loses -- if they were a party built on principle, we wouldn't have Trump in the first place -- but it will take some time to rebuild credibility.

 

[Tony]

I don't think Republican Party owners will have any trouble renouncing and disowning Trump if he loses -- if they were a party built on principle, we wouldn't have Trump in the first place -- but it will take some time to rebuild credibility.

The Republican Party lost credibility with me during the GW Bush years. Their credibility was further **** upon during the Obama years. Trump has nuked any smattering of credibility that might have remained.

I don’t expect them to regain credibility (as far as I am concerned) within my lifetime.

 

[Dr. Keith]

The Republican Party lost credibility with me during the GW Bush years. Their credibility was further **** upon during the Obama years. Trump has nuked any smattering of credibility that might have remained.

I don’t expect them to regain credibility (as far as I am concerned) within my lifetime.

Agreed.

Further, I don't think they need credibility. Not in the normal sense of that word. They just need to be seen as ******** on libs and pissing of dems. So long as they have that covered, nothing else really matters to their base.

 

[ArchSas]

Agreed.

Further, I don't think they need credibility. Not in the normal sense of that word. They just need to be seen as ******** on libs and pissing of dems. So long as they have that covered, nothing else really matters to their base.

Yep, credibility isn't the goal anymore. Conservatism in the US has been moving increasingly in the direction of Postmodern Conservatism. What most people consider credibility doesn't matter to them anymore, it's all about ideology and narrative for them now.

 

[rockysmith76]

Yep, credibility isn't the goal anymore. Conservatism in the US has been moving increasingly in the direction of Postmodern Conservatism. What most people consider credibility doesn't matter to them anymore, it's all about ideology and narrative for them now.

Where as liberals are the unsolicited answer to a question noone asked.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Where as liberals are the unsolicited answer to a question noone asked.

Nobody in the "I've got mine" crowd, maybe.

 

[Tony]

Agreed.

Further, I don't think they need credibility. Not in the normal sense of that word. They just need to be seen as ******** on libs and pissing of dems. So long as they have that covered, nothing else really matters to their base.

I agree. I would add that the Dems/Libs political ineptitude has prevented them from countering and undermining Republican attacks to that end.

Republicans are malevolent and the Dems and inept. I’ve already accepted that we are all ******.

 

[theprestige]

The Republican Party lost credibility with me during the GW Bush years. Their credibility was further **** upon during the Obama years. Trump has nuked any smattering of credibility that might have remained.

I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party. He's not an ideological conservative. He's not part of the GOP establishment. He's a non-ideological self-centered demagogue who put an R next to his name in 2015 because that's where the fun was.

Now he's like a dog who caught the car he was chasing. What's he supposed to do now? Not even the dog really knows. You're blaming the car's owner for having this angry mutt clamped to their bumper.

 

[Belz...]

I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party. He's not an ideological conservative. He's not part of the GOP establishment.

And yet the GOP is following him like lap dogs.

 

[Segnosaur]

I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party.

Yes he is.

From: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/17/rep...es-after-racist-tweets-reutersipsos-poll.html
The national survey, conducted on Monday and Tuesday after Trump told the lawmakers they should “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came,” showed his net approval among members of his Republican Party rose by 5 percentage points to 72%...

If you are getting almost 3/4s of the voters in your party supporting you, its a pretty safe bet that you're "representative of the republican party". And of course opposition to Trump among Republican congress-critters is pretty non-existent.

The fact is, the republican party as of late can be seen as a bastion of racism, of opportunism, of dirty tricks, of ignorance, and they've been that way for years before Trump joined the primaries. Yet Trump fits that description pretty well.

He's not an ideological conservative.

Yet he has championed huge tax cuts, military expansion, anti-environmentalist policies, has called for the rollback of abortion rights, and has attacked the LGBTQ community. Sounds pretty much like an 'ideological conservative' to me.

And none of the other supposed 'ideological conservatives' in congress seemed to care about the huge increase in the deficit that was a result of their tax cuts, nor have they acted to prevent Trump from taking money from the Military to fund his border wall.

Maybe your problem is assuming that Republicans=Ideological conservatives, when the reality is that Republicans=racist anti-science scum bags.

He's not part of the GOP establishment.

He is now.

 

[Tony]

And yet the GOP is following him like lap dogs.

This.

 

[ponderingturtle]

This.

Also he literally does represent the republican party, that was the entire point of the primaries he won. They chose him and they support him.

 

[ahhell]

At one point the Democrat Party was literally the party of slavery. The seem to have moved on which implies that their is a chance for the GOP as well.

More recently, the Democrat Party was literally the party of jim crow too.

 

[ahhell]

This.

Also he literally does represent the republican party, that was the entire point of the primaries he won. They chose him and they support him.

I am still surprised at how skeptics are remain ignorant of basic human psychology.

 

[WilliamSeger]

At one point the Democrat Party was literally the party of slavery. The seem to have moved on which implies that their is a chance for the GOP as well.

More recently, the Democrat Party was literally the party of jim crow too.

I expect it will be more like the rebranding that corporations do when they screw up. After a while, people forget.

 

[Belz...]

At one point the Democrat Party was literally the party of slavery. The seem to have moved on which implies that their is a chance for the GOP as well.

More recently, the Democrat Party was literally the party of jim crow too.

Democratic Party.

I am still surprised at how skeptics are remain ignorant of basic human psychology.

What do you mean?