Can Soul, Ghosts Exist?

[jmercer]

Ashles,

If things are unclear we have to try to clear it again & again as we clean a glass which is still unclear. Something positive or some logic can be there, if any concept persist but remain unclear as homeopathy etc. persist here. I think you are yet, unable to satisfy, even to 'otherwise skeptic' in Chritianity & skepticism' thread. ???

And since Kumar has seen fit to include me by reference ("otherwise skeptical" from the Christian and Skeptic thread), I'll weigh in here as well.

Homeopathy claims to have physical and repeatable effects. That means it's objectively verifiable, unlike the God question. There is objective evidence that homeopathy does not work. To persist in "cleaning the glass" in spite of the fact that the glass is flawed and cannot be seen through is completely illogical.

Since I get the impression from your posts that english isn't your main language, let me rephrase that so it's very clear:

Retaining a belief in something that has been proven false beyond reasonable doubt is foolish.

 

[Kumar]

Sure.
Find some evidence and then we can seperate the belief from the pile of all the other beliefs for which there is no evidence:

Fairies, ESP, homeopathy, alien abduction, Aztec alien landing sites, ghosts, Zeus, reptilian controllers, telekinesis, the loch ness monster, Harry Potter etc. etc. ad nauseam.

Or do you believe in every one of those until they are disproven?

Evidances/scientific picture is for science purpose only as evidance based medicines & DBPC studies can also fails/contradicted/toxic/banned/modified on practical experiances or as time tested medicine by mass.....So practical observations & experiances also hold SOME value. Practical observations & experiances are there in homeopathic community which all can't be illitrate or fools. You can also assess other systems accordingly. Can you confirm all the existing medicines as mushrooming today will persist & remain absolute for next one to hundred years because these have sufficient evidances & DBPC studies with you?? You may say modification but why if perfect with so much testings. OK forget modification/improvements, can you confirm that nothing out of these will be banned on ground of toxic or severe adverse results?

 

[rppa]

I don't know whay you don't accept that any reflected light from anybody & being, can be specific to that body or being in colour wavelengths & dimentions.

Because it's not. Simple as that.

Do you think that if I create a paint which has exactly the same color as your skin, that it suddenly turns into skin, that it is now indistinguishable from skin?

This is same as we see & recognize photo of a person--coloured or black & white.

Bad example. Photography (and painting, for that matter) relies on a very important property of human vision: You can create a pigment with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECTRUM from the "color" you are trying to reproduce, and it will look like the same color to a person. Or to most people. If somebody is colorblind or otherwise altered in their visual receptors, then two things the "same color" won't be the same color to that person.

If a photograph had to exactly reproduce the spectrum of what it was capturing, photography wouldn't have been invented yet.

 

[Kumar]

And since Kumar has seen fit to include me by reference ("otherwise skeptical" from the Christian and Skeptic thread), I'll weigh in here as well.

Homeopathy claims to have physical and repeatable effects. That means it's objectively verifiable, unlike the God question. There is objective evidence that homeopathy does not work. To persist in "cleaning the glass" in spite of the fact that the glass is flawed and cannot be seen through is completely illogical.

Since I get the impression from your posts that english isn't your main language, let me rephrase that so it's very clear:

Retaining a belief in something that has been proven false beyond reasonable doubt is foolish.

What about the religion or every other 'beliver's & skeptic fighting issues,systems or concepts'? Don't you feel that they also have negative evidances wth them for the same? They have, but all those(evidances) are not absolute & found invalid/otherwise on practical experiances & observations(probably you might also got something) by those mass...experiancing those systems. Prize is still valid with a hope probably science may get some science & people are still using at progressive increasing rate inspite science declare all these as invalid.

 

[Ashles]

Can you confirm all the existing medicines as mushrooming today will persist & remain absolute for next one to hundred years because these have sufficient evidances & DBPC studies with you?? You may say modification but why if perfect with so much testings. OK forget modification/improvements, can you confirm that nothing out of these will be banned on ground of toxic or severe adverse results?

Blah, blah, blah. The efficacy of scientific medicine is irrelevant to whether homeopathy works. As has been explained to you over and over and over again.

Homeopathy doesn't work in any testing.

Anyone who thinks it does is fooling themselves.

So practical observations & experiences also hold SOME value

Anecdotal evidence is worthless, ESPECIALLY when it comes to homeopathy.
Keep claiming otherwse - it won't make it true. It won't stop homeopathy failing in any trials. It won't stop people getting ill as a result of failing to take the correct treatment when relying instead on homeopathic water.

You aren't interested in scientific knowledge or the scientific method Kumar, so why do you try to have conversations that refer to scientific knowledge and terminology?

 

[Kumar]

I don't know whay you don't accept that any reflected light from anybody & being, can be specific to that body or being in colour wavelengths & dimentions.

Because it's not. Simple as that.

Do you think that if I create a paint which has exactly the same color as your skin, that it suddenly turns into skin, that it is now indistinguishable from skin?

This is same as we see & recognize photo of a person--coloured or black & white.

Bad example. Photography (and painting, for that matter) relies on a very important property of human vision: You can create a pigment with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECTRUM from the "color" you are trying to reproduce, and it will look like the same color to a person. Or to most people. If somebody is colorblind or otherwise altered in their visual receptors, then two things the "same color" won't be the same color to that person.

If a photograph had to exactly reproduce the spectrum of what it was capturing, photography wouldn't have been invented yet.

The effect is that which our body can sense & process it. If our brain can recognize & process a photo, even if it differ in colours of real person, it still means effects are passed & so should be there. How? you have to tell me. I will just say that whatever our brain/body can sense, recognize & process, is an effect, whether it is a dream, ghost, soul, god, homeopathy, placebo/ mental, hal..., psycological or otherwise? Also no such effect, even thought today as paranormal, supernatural, pseudoscientific, psycological etc. can be non-scientific, but It can be be possible that it is still a miss & weakness of science & so pending. So just go on trying. To start with first find out abc--what GODESS/GOD means? Why 'ladies first' is said & thought???

 

[Kumar]

Blah, blah, blah. The efficacy of scientific medicine is irrelevant to whether homeopathy works. As has been explained to you over and over and over again.

Homeopathy doesn't work in any testing.

Anyone who thinks it does is fooling themselves.


Anecdotal evidence is worthless, ESPECIALLY when it comes to homeopathy.
Keep claiming otherwse - it won't make it true. It won't stop homeopathy failing in any trials. It won't stop people getting ill as a result of failing to take the correct treatment when relying instead on homeopathic water.

You aren't interested in scientific knowledge or the scientific method Kumar, so why do you try to have conversations that refer to scientific knowledge and terminology?

It is one's own or of his community's personal experiance which can decide a thing for him/them. Skepticism if your belief, you can advocate it whereas their observations & experiances are believers belief, they can speak accordingly. Let the respective communities live in their own beliefs. Lion's share is still with you.

Rest I think, can cover in my previous reply to rppa.

 

[jmercer]

What about the religion or every other 'beliver's & skeptic fighting issues,systems or concepts'? Don't you feel that they also have negative evidances wth them for the same? They have, but all those(evidances) are not absolute & found invalid/otherwise on practical experiances & observations(probably you might also got something) by those mass...experiancing those systems. Prize is still valid with a hope probably science may get some science & people are still using at progressive increasing rate inspite science declare all these as invalid.

Kumar - after reading the above thread - plus your response to me - that there's nothing to be gained by continuing to discuss this with you.

I'm sorry, but you need to understand what constitutes objective evidence and testing in order to proceed.

 

[Ashles]

A)
B)
or
C)

Hmm...

You know, I really still can't decide which.

 

[Mojo]

Evidances/scientific picture is for science purpose only as evidance based medicines & DBPC studies can also fails/contradicted/toxic/banned/modified on practical experiances or as time tested medicine by mass.....So practical observations & experiances also hold SOME value.

Well, this is the whole point, isn't it? An evidence-based medicine will not be used if it does not prove to be effective. Why the **** shouldn't this apply to homeopathy?

Practical observations & experiances are there in homeopathic community which all can't be illitrate or fools.

No, some of them are idiots or frauds.

You can also assess other systems accordingly. Can you confirm all the existing medicines as mushrooming today will persist & remain absolute for next one to hundred years because these have sufficient evidances & DBPC studies with you?? You may say modification but why if perfect with so much testings. OK forget modification/improvements, can you confirm that nothing out of these will be banned on ground of toxic or severe adverse results?

Of course we can't guarantee that current evidence-based medicines will continue to be used. If evidence comes to light that they are dangerous, or if better remedies are developed, they will stop being used. That's how proper science works!

However, I think that we can guarantee that homeopathy will continue to be used whatever the evidence - as long as there are idiots like you around.

 

[jmercer]

I don't know if this has been posted before - sorry if it was - but evidence-based medicines will absolutely stop being used as new evidence mounts that they are becoming less effective - such as from the overuse of antibiotics.

 

[flume]

The effect is that which our body can sense & process it. If our brain can recognize & process a photo, even if it differ in colours of real person, it still means effects are passed & so should be there. How?

You see the person because light reflected from that person's face goes to your eyes. (As you said, the exact wavelengths aren't important as long as you get information that shows the shape of the face.)
When you turn off the light, no light is reflected off a person's face and you can't see the person. If you leave the light on, but the person walks out of the room, no light is reflecting off that person and hitting your eyes, so you can't see that person.
Right?

(The same with a photograph.)

 

[Kumar]

Well, this is the whole point, isn't it? An evidence-based medicine will not be used if it does not prove to be effective. Why the **** shouldn't this apply to homeopathy?

Why adversities still arise on practical applications inspite of so strong evidances & studies on which you are making your base? Can't all these evidances & studies are more needed in case of harsh chemical based healing substances to check their side/adverse/toxic effects?

No, some of them are idiots or frauds.

If some of modern medicines come out to be toxic, fraud & some people in this are idiots & fraud, you do not base them as issue to ban this system. Some don't make all.

Of course we can't guarantee that current evidence-based medicines will continue to be used. If evidence comes to light that they are dangerous, or if better remedies are developed, they will stop being used. That's how proper science works!

It means you are not sure & absolute about effects & ultimate true results, but just uses mass poor public who keeps so much faith in you, as your experimenting/trial entities. It also means preferance & truth is in 'practical & time testing.Btw, how you compensate for the adversities of harsh chemicals of which you are not sure & from which people suffers--if so much evidances/studies based medicine fails or effect adversely??

However, I think that we can guarantee that homeopathy will continue to be used whatever the evidence - as long as there are idiots like you around.

All have mouth & brain so all can speak as per his thinking/feeling. Since you are not sure & absolute about harsh chemical based substance, it can't be sure & absolute that you may not found yourself as fool,idiot,illetrate or gulliable at some later date. So just remain bit silent in commenting with surety & adversily.

 

[Kumar]

You see the person because light reflected from that person's face goes to your eyes. (As you said, the exact wavelengths aren't important as long as you get information that shows the shape of the face.)
When you turn off the light, no light is reflected off a person's face and you can't see the person. If you leave the light on, but the person walks out of the room, no light is reflecting off that person and hitting your eyes, so you can't see that person.
Right?

(The same with a photograph.)

I just mean that senses can be both by colours & dimentions/shape. It means if reflected/emitted lights forms any shape/pattern, it can also be sensed/felt by our brain or u,s specifically--so can be alike ghost/soul. Whatever can cause 'sensation' in us--means it is effecting/interacting with us. We can also consider photo of a dead person somewhat alike ghost/soul of that person because it can cause sensation in us so can interact with us. Just consider reflected/emitted light from a body(dead or alive) as specific/charactristic pattern of colours/WLs alike as we get image on phtographic paper. How it can persist & stay in atmosphere unchanged, we need to understand it.

I think science & possibility of this persistance & locking/staying for long of specific patterns is yet a pending understanding & can form a basis/ essence of all energy based paranormals.

 

[PixyMisa]

I just mean that senses can be both by colours & dimentions/shape. It means if reflected/emitted lights forms any shape/pattern, it can also be sensed/felt by our brain or us specifically--so can e alike ghost/soul.

No.

Whatever can cause 'sensation' in us--means it is effecting/interacting with us. Just consider reflected/emitted light from a body(dead or alive) as specific charactristic pattern of colours/WLs alike as we get image on phtographic paper.

All this means is that we can see dead people.

How it can persist & stay in atmosphere unchanged, we need to understand it.

It can't; it doesn't; and we understand this perfectly well.

I think science & possibility o this persistance & locking/staying for long of specific patterns is yet a pending understanding & essence of all energy based paranormals.

No.

 

[Kumar]

I don't know if this has been posted before - sorry if it was - but evidence-based medicines will absolutely stop being used as new evidence mounts that they are becoming less effective - such as from the overuse of antibiotics.

I think you are bit drailed & hijecked, Just don't let go 'still unclear' aspects from your mind but just keep those as pending. We have so many yet to be found concepts & we will understand all those when we will see 'prime energy/matter' being source of everything.

 

[PixyMisa]

We have so many yet to be found concepts & we will understand all those when we will see 'prime energy/matter' being source of everything.

No.

There is no such thing.

 

[Kumar]

I don't know if this has been posted before - sorry if it was - but evidence-based medicines will absolutely stop being used as new evidence mounts that they are becoming less effective - such as from the overuse of antibiotics.

You must note, that we may just be experimenting/trying till anything become somewhat absolute. It is just not improving or modification but it can also be a toxic. I don't know, how far it is correct to induce humans in experiments & trials which can cause severe adversities.

 

[Zep]

Kumar, it appears there's PLENTY of stuff that remains "unclear" to you, but to the rest of the sane and intelligent world, it is already VERY VERY clear, and has been for centuries.

You are not ahead of science at all with any of your garbled ramblings, you are so, SO far behind that you need to be reincarnated and start again as a schoolchild and go back to school...and this time, LISTEN and LEARN!

 

[Kumar]

No.

There is no such thing.

Who knows? But it is well indicated in 'so called paranormals' & people feel/finds its effects. Just know by its positive side by i]'who creates & benefits us by placebo, self healing or otherwise yet unclear'[/i].