Can Science Measure Sensations?

[drkitten]

new drkitten,

It is still not absolute rejection of reiki effects. Just look at more confusions

Unfortunately, all three of the studies you cite have fatal flaws.

The first of your citations is the best, because there is at least a pretense of control group -- one group received "rest," the other recieved "Reiki." Unfortunately, there's no possible way that particular study could have been blinded at all.

The second "study" is a self-selected case report and does not address the issue of effectiveness at all.

The third study does not have a control group or placebo at all; instead it's a "before and after" study of a self-admitted convenience sample. There's no way to exclude the placebo effect.

This is a perfect illustration of the fundamental problem of studies of this kind. If you do the study correctly, there is no reproducible effect. The only way to get an effect is by cheating, and then hoping no one reads your study closely.

[/B][/QUOTE]

 

[Donks]

Unfortunately, all three of the studies you cite have fatal flaws.

The first of your citations is the best, because there is at least a pretense of control group -- one group received "rest," the other recieved "Reiki." Unfortunately, there's no possible way that particular study could have been blinded at all.

The second "study" is a self-selected case report and does not address the issue of effectiveness at all.

The third study does not have a control group or placebo at all; instead it's a "before and after" study of a self-admitted convenience sample. There's no way to exclude the placebo effect.

This is a perfect illustration of the fundamental problem of studies of this kind. If you do the study correctly, there is no reproducible effect. The only way to get an effect is by cheating, and then hoping no one reads your study closely.

Kumar doesn't understand blinding or controls at all. He doesn't understand how or why they are used. I suspect he thinks they are obstacles to finding out what really happened to the patient.

 

[materia3]

Thanks, but then, why science has not yet measured effects of so called energy healing systems on/via nervous system? If measured, pls provide me some links.

Because there isn't anything to measure. No measuable potentials are evoked by what you refer to.

 

[Kumar]

Unfortunately, all three of the studies you cite have fatal flaws.

The first of your citations is the best, because there is at least a pretense of control group -- one group received "rest," the other recieved "Reiki." Unfortunately, there's no possible way that particular study could have been blinded at all.

The second "study" is a self-selected case report and does not address the issue of effectiveness at all.

The third study does not have a control group or placebo at all; instead it's a "before and after" study of a self-admitted convenience sample. There's no way to exclude the placebo effect.

This is a perfect illustration of the fundamental problem of studies of this kind. If you do the study correctly, there is no reproducible effect. The only way to get an effect is by cheating, and then hoping no one reads your study closely.

[/B][/QUOTE]

There are many more links.

Anyway, I was thinking about possibilty of somewhat Double Seen DS studies, in view of possibility of ' real effects on belief only' being senstive, minute, energy based(somewhat God based). In this DS studies, suppose two believers are selected. They are given two type of healing substance, one real & other blank. They are previously told that these are real healing substances. What do you think, what can be the result of this type of DS study?

Since, there are so much confusions & both side are firm with true honesty, on their stands, I assume that belief only unable real healing substance, to work or alike open mouth of our sensorary inputs or open our mouth when we are hungry & believe/recognize any food. I thinkit makes some true sense.

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip* I thinkit makes some true sense. [/B]

Not in English. No sense at all.

Hans

 

[drkitten]

Anyway, I was thinking about possibilty of somewhat Double Seen DS studies, in view of possibility of ' real effects on belief only' being senstive, minute, energy based(somewhat God based). In this DS studies, suppose two believers are selected. They are given two type of healing substance, one real & other blank. They are previously told that these are real healing substances. What do you think, what can be the result of this type of DS study?

This experiment has been done (repeatedly). An example was cited earlier:

RESULTS: No effects of Reiki were found on the FIM or CES-D, although typical effects as a result of age, gender, and time in rehabilitation were detected. Blinded practitioners (sham or reiki) were unable to determine which category they were in. Sham Reiki practitioners reported greater frequency of feeling heat in the hands compared to Reiki practitioners. There was no reported difference between the sham and the real Reiki practitioners in their ability to feel energy flowing through their hands. [...] CONCLUSION: Reiki did not have any clinically useful effect on stroke recovery in subacute hospitalized patients receiving standard-of-care rehabilitation therapy.

No differences were observed between the two groups -- neither the doctors nor the patients could tell whether they had been given a "real" healing substance, in this case Reiki.

 

[Kumar]

This experiment has been done (repeatedly). An example was cited earlier:



No differences were observed between the two groups -- neither the doctors nor the patients could tell whether they had been given a "real" healing substance, in this case Reiki.

So many contradicting results are there. You can find both types. Just search ny 'reiki' at pub med. One such;

Long-term effects of energetic healing on symptoms of psychological depression and self-perceived stress.

Shore AG.

The long-term effects of energetic healing were examined in an experimental design employing a 3 x 3 factorial MANOVA on symptoms of psychological depression and self-perceived stress as measured by the Beck Depression Inventory, Beck Hopelessness, and Perceived Stress scales. Forty-six participants were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: hands-on Reiki, distance Reiki, or distance Reiki placebo, and remained blind to treatment condition. Each participant received a 1 to 1.5 hour treatment each week for 6 weeks. Pretest data collected prior to treatment demonstrated no preexisting significant differences among groups. Upon completion of treatment, there was a significant reduction in symptoms of psychological distress in treatment groups as compared with controls (P < .05; Eta square ranging from .09-.18), and these differences continued to be present 1 year later (P < .05; Eta square ranging from .12-.44).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15154152