Can photograph effect?

[PixyMisa]

Heheh, Pixy. Just wait till Kumar comes full circle and concludes something like "in view of the above, I feel body heat and part exitations can effect..."

And then we pelt him with rotten fruit? That's how the game goes, yes?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Exactly!





And then he shakes it off, pretends nothing has happened, and starts all over again. It is like a TV series; you know the ones where where you are watching episode 733 of 2044, and it is EXACTLY like episode 418 of 2044, and you can miss 50 episodes and still be with the action.

 

[Kumar]

The hotter the material, the more likely it is for an electron to jump to an excited state.

However, the possible orbits are fixed. No matter how hot the material is, the possible orbits do not change.The orbits A, B and C are always the same. The energies of the photons that can be emitted are always the same.


I want to know effect of heat applied/absorbed- lesser than required for excitation level of minimum one orbit jump of any electron as 'body heat'.

It is vibrations, yes. That's what heat is.

Can't it be taken as 'part excitation' or part changes in atomic/molecular structures?

Basically, yes. There is a formula for calculating exactly how much light of each wavelength you will get at a given temperature.

Yes, though the brightness at various wavelengths will be different.

(And remember, we're just talking visible wavelengths here. You don't get X-Rays from a candle flame.)

Thanks.

One of two ways:

First, the object is not completely black (nothing is), so you see what little light is reflected.

Second, by contrast. Put a lump of coal on a sheet of white paper, and it's pretty damn hard to miss.

If anything is completely black--will we then not able to see it? How 'whatever light reflected' can make us to see it black?

When there is no reflection(assume completely black) how it is by contrast? I think it should be just a 'blank space' or see nothing. I think when we can't see as in night--it is just alike blank spaces? Do we see black letters as embedded/groved?

 

[PixyMisa]

I want to know effect of heat applied/absorbed- lesser than required for excitation level of minimum one orbit jump of any electron as 'body heat'.

The effect is it gets hotter.

Can't it be taken as 'part excitation' or part changes in atomic/molecular structures?

No.

There is no part excitation. The electron is in its ground state in orbit A, or it is in its excited state in B (or C). Never in between. Never partly excited. It does not happen. Never ever.

There is no such thing as "part excitation".

If anything is completely black--will we then not able to see it? How 'whatever light reflected' can make us to see it black?

No substance is completely black.

If something was completely black, though, it would look black.

When there is no reflection(assume completely black) how it is by contrast?

It would be a black thing in the middle of a white area.

I think it should be just a 'blank space' or see nothing.

It would look black.

I think when we can't see as in night--it is just alike blank spaces?

When it is dark, it looks black.

Do we see black letters as embedded/groved?

No, we see them as black.

 

[Kumar]

The effect is it gets hotter.

But how can you show it to me, scientifically?

No.

There is no part excitation. The electron is in its ground state in orbit A, or it is in its excited state in B (or C). Never in between. Never partly excited. It does not happen. Never ever.

There is no such thing as "part excitation".

Can we then say it more vibrating or with more momentum or more active?

No substance is completely black.

If something was completely black, though, it would look black.

It would be a black thing in the middle of a white area.

It would look black.

When it is dark, it looks black.

No, we see them as black.

But how our eyes/brain catches this colour when no reflection from complete black is possible? Same thing also happen in case of completly transparent object. Why then black is not invisible to us alike transparent? Didn't our eyes/brain work on reflected/emitted wavelengths?

I just want to assess 'how brain recognize black & white photo?

 

[PixyMisa]

But how can you show it to me, scientifically?

With a sophisticated instrument known as a thermometer.

Can we then say it more vibrating or with more momentum or more active?

We can say it is hotter. That is the correct technical term.

But how our eyes/brain catches this colour when no reflection from complete black is possible?

It doesn't. That's what black is.

Same thing also happen in case of completly transparent object.

No, that is completely different. With a transparent object, you see what is behind the object.

Air is a good example of how this works.

Why then black is not invisible to us alike transparent?

Black is not transparent because it is not transparent. It is black.

Try this: Take a window. It is not perfectly transparent, but it is good enough for our experiment. Now paint it black.

See the difference?

Didn't our eyes/brain work on reflected/emitted wavelengths?

Yes.

I just want to assess 'how brain recognize black & white photo?

You see the photo with your eyes. The information passes along the optic nerve to the vision centre of your brain. Then it gets processed.

 

[Kumar]

With a sophisticated instrument known as a thermometer

We can say it is hotter. That is the correct technical term.

It doesn't. That's what black is.

This is layman measurement. Pls tell me quantum changes on applying pre-excitation level heat to any molecular/atomic structure. Pls reply in view of your folowing reply. Pls reply like a teacher not like a hero(those other sometimes try do 'part excitations or excitations, but you know its science.)

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What can be possible changes on atoms & molecules on getting body heat? Is it some change in molecular/atomic vibrations?
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It is vibrations, yes. That's what heat is.

No, that is completely different. With a transparent object, you see what is behind the object.

Why we don't see things behind a black colour object? How it stops viewing things behind it? Pls tell in terms of wavelengths-eyes/brain interactions.


You see the photo with your eyes. The information passes along the optic nerve to the vision centre of your brain. Then it gets processed.

But when no information/wavelength is reflected in case of a black colour on B&W photo--how our brain recognize it. Moreover, there is no other colour than white--then how brain recognize it?

 

[Donks]

This is layman measurement. Pls tell me quantum changes on applying pre-excitation level heat to any molecular/atomic structure. Pls reply in view of your folowing reply. Pls reply like a teacher not like a hero(those other sometimes try do 'part excitations or excitations, but you know its science.)

When you heat something, two things can happen:
-The molecules gain kinetic energy, they move faster.
-The object can change states. Ice turns to water, that sort of thing.
There are no part excitations. It's a concept incompatible with Quantum theory, observations, measurements, etc.

Why we don't see things behind a black colour object? How it stops viewing things behind it? Pls tell in terms of wavelengths-eyes/brain interactions.

The eyes and brain have nothing to do with a black object not being transparent. A black object absorbs visible light. That much was apparently clear to you, though I'm starting to doubt it. So, photons coming from behind the object get absorbed. By the object. End of story. Try using your brain sometimes, this is pretty basic.

But when no information/wavelength is reflected in case of a black colour on B&W photo--how our brain recognize it. Moreover, there is no other colour than white--then how brain recognize it?

In additive color systems, like light, the absence of color is black. If the sensors in a particular part of the retina don't detect photons, the brain interprets that as black, in that particular spot. Not hard to figure out.

Need any more info chewed and digested for you?

 

[PixyMisa]

Why we don't see things behind a black colour object?

Because it is not transparent. It is black.

How it stops viewing things behind it?

Light passes through transparent objects. That's what the word transparent means. If there is a green object behind the transparent object, light is reflected from the green object, passes through the transparent object, and we see green.

Light does not pass through black objects. And as you already know, light is not reflected by black objects.

But when no information/wavelength is reflected in case of a black colour on B&W photo--how our brain recognize it.

No wavelengths of light are returned by the black areas. (Well, in principle.) This is because the black areas are black. This is what black means. Black means that it doesn't reflect light.

Moreover, there is no other colour than white

Yes there is. You said it yourself: There is black.

then how brain recognize it?

You see the white areas where white light is reflected. You see the black areas where no light is reflected.

As you said, black and white. That's what you see.

 

[PixyMisa]

This is layman measurement. Pls tell me quantum changes on applying pre-excitation level heat to any molecular/atomic structure. Pls reply in view of your folowing reply. Pls reply like a teacher not like a hero(those other sometimes try do 'part excitations or excitations, but you know its science.)

Donks has addressed this, but here we go again:

When you apply heat to something, it gets hotter.

Remember how heat is vibrations? Well, if you heat something more, it vibrates more. The atoms or molecules that make up the object are vibrating.

If you heat something enough, it will melt.

If you keep heating it, it will boil.

You can try this at home with water. It really works!

 

[Kumar]

When you heat something, two things can happen:
-The molecules gain kinetic energy, they move faster.
-The object can change states. Ice turns to water, that sort of thing.
There are no part excitations. It's a concept incompatible with Quantum theory, observations, measurements, etc.

But what will happen when we apply continious & constant heat(as body heat) or other energy which are of sub-emittion level?

The eyes and brain have nothing to do with a black object not being transparent. A black object absorbs visible light. That much was apparently clear to you, though I'm starting to doubt it. So, photons coming from behind the object get absorbed. By the object. End of story. Try using your brain sometimes, this is pretty basic.In additive color systems, like light, the absence of color is black. If the sensors in a particular part of the retina don't detect photons, the brain interprets that as black, in that particular spot. Not hard to figure out.


Both tranparent(with bo backround) & black object do not reflect? How then our eyes see then differantly? In case of black, I mentioned as 'we just see 'blank'. Is it wrong? Someone indicated to me that 'black matter is real prime energy'.??

 

[Kumar]

You see the white areas where white light is reflected. You see the black areas where no light is reflected.

As you said, black and white. That's what you see.

Rest is clear to me, thanks.

In this case, does brain just recognize dimentions, brightness or saturation but not hue?

 

[MRC_Hans]

But what will happen when we apply continious heat(as body heat) or other energy?

When you apply heat to an object, it will get warmer, the temperature will rise, and this will cause more heat to be radiated or conducted away from the object. When the output equals the input, the temperature stops rising.

Both tranparent(with bo backround) & black object do not reflect?

Correct.

How then our eyes see then differantly?

because with a black object, you see black (=no light returned), with a transparant object you see whatever is BEHIND it (=light coming through it).

In case of black, I mentioned as 'we just see 'blank'. Is it wrong?

"See black" is what we call it when there is absense of light. Just like "silence" is absense of sound, and "cold" is absense of heat.

Someone indicated to me that 'black matter is real prime energy'.??

A black object is not made of black matter. Although black matter makes up about 75% of the universe, noboy has ever seen it.

Hans


Don't yank the line prematurely, now.

 

[Donks]

But what will happen when we apply continious heat(as body heat) or other energy?

The molecules move faster, the object changes states.

Both tranparent(with bo backround) & black object do not reflect? How then our eyes see then differantly? In case of black, I mentioned as 'we just see 'blank'. Is it wrong? Someone indicated to me that 'black matter is real prime energy'.??

In the transparent case, photons coming from behind the object are not absorbed, they pass through the object and your eyes receive them, thus you see through the object.

For an object that is not transparent, the photons coming from behind the object get absorbed (for wavelengths that this particular object absorbes) or get reflected back the general way they came (for wavelengths that the object reflects). So you can't see through it. You see a non-transparent object when the photons coming from YOUR side of the object bouce off it and go to your eyes.

For a black object, the photons going into it from all sides get absorved (mostly), you are left with only a few photons that get reflected (nothing is perfectly black), but in general what you have is no information coming from that region in your visual field. That is black.

 

[Kumar]

When you apply heat to an object, it will get warmer, the temperature will rise, and this will cause more heat to be radiated or conducted away from the object. When the output equals the input, the temperature stops rising.

Donks; The molecules move faster, the object changes states.
Are heat radiation/conduction or object changes states, not emissions of photons? If yes, how then can we say that no photon can be emitted within the body by body heat ?

Donks; So you can't see through it. You see a non-transparent object when the photons coming from YOUR side of the object bouce off it and go to your eyes.

Can photons bounce or deviate its direction without absorption & emissions?

See black" is what we call it when there is absense of light. Just like "silence" is absense of sound, and "cold" is absense of heat.

For a black object, the photons going into it from all sides get absorved (mostly), you are left with only a few photons that get reflected (nothing is perfectly black), but in general what you have is no information coming from that region in your visual field. That is black.

I think we see black colour as blank space is also proper.

 

[PixyMisa]

Can photons bounce or deviate its direction without absorption & emissions?

Do you know what a "mirror" is, Kumar?

How about a "lens"? A "prism"?

I think we see black colour as blank space is also proper.

No. We see it as black.

Look at a black object. What colour is it?

 

[Kumar]

Do you know what a "mirror" is, Kumar?

How about a "lens"? A "prism"?

Why that can't be by absorption & emission?

No. We see it as black.

Look at a black object. What colour is it?

When we close eyes--then also we see black/blank.

 

[PixyMisa]

Why that can't be by absorption & emission?

So, are you asking about what happens to individual photons when they strike a material object?

You can just treat light as a wave, you know. Ignore the fiddly details of the quantum interactions. You still get the right answer - because light is a wave. (It's also particles, but I don't want to make your head explode.)

When we close eyes--then also we see black/blank.

When it is dark, or we have our eyes closed, or we look at a black object, we see black.

 

[Kumar]

So, are you asking about what happens to individual photons when they strike a material object?

You can tell how photons can be reflected, refracted or bounced without absorption & emission.

You can just treat light as a wave, you know. Ignore the fiddly details of the quantum interactions. You still get the right answer - because light is a wave. (It's also particles, but I don't want to make your head explode.)

I know photons have both--wave & particle's property.

When it is dark, or we have our eyes closed, or we look at a black object, we see black.

I think it is all visual blank to a blind person--therefore he may be seeing it black.

 

[PixyMisa]

You can tell how photons can be reflected, refracted or bounced without absorbtion & emission.

Okay. If you want to study these at the quantum mechanical level, treating light as particles, all of these processes involve absorbtion and emission. The only thing you can use to redirect photons without absorbtion and emission is gravity. That can certainly bend light; whether it would be accurate to call it "refraction" I am not sure.

I think it is all visual blank to a blind person--therefore he may be seeing it black.

I have been blind - once, briefly, due to illness - so I can speak from personal experience. It is black.