Can Atheists Be Good Citizens?

Foster Zygote said:
Irrelevant. The Declaration of Independence is not a document of US government. A good citizen is expected to defend the US Constitution. Why could an atheist not defend the Constitution?
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I will pick another nit, if you will indulge me.

A good citizen would be expected to abide by the Constitution, or, to attempt to reform it (along with other like minded citizens) via the Constitutionally agreed process when said citizen at odds with what the Constitution contains. (See women's suffrage for an example of said reform attempts.)

The only people I would expect to defend the Constitution would be those who so swore, like all members of Congress, Executive Branch, etc, who take official oaths to do so, and those inclined to defend its merits on political or philosophicls grounds.

That leaves a lot of perfectly good citizens who are content to simply acknowledge and abide by it, delegating to their duly elected officials, etcetera as above, the task of defending the Constitution.

DR
 
Did Stone ever answer the relevant question? Does he think atheists can be good citizens?

I've read through the thread and didn't see any answer to that question. I can conclude this, though, that he really does think atheists can't be good citizens AND he's too cowardly to come out and say it directly.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Did Stone ever answer the relevant question? Does he think atheists can be good citizens?

I've read through the thread and didn't see any answer to that question. I can conclude this, though, that he really does think atheists can't be good citizens AND he's too cowardly to come out and say it directly.
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No he hasn't but I'm getting to that conclusion too.

His current record is speaking through 8 puppets at once.
 
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GreyICE said:
Can atheists be good citizens? What's YOUR ideas on the matter?

(Run, Forrest, Run!)
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Although I said relevant question earlier, I think that the "Can atheists be good citizens?" question is irrelevant. Stone has been giving reasons as to why he thinks atheists can't be good citizens, so the question has already been answered, indirectly but conclusively.
 
Well, if you assume the same things Stone does, then it's pretty obvious they can't. Of course, his assumptions are false, but not everyone can be correct. A couple of his assumptions are 1. Atheists are immoral and 2. good citizens have to moral.
 
KingMerv00 said:
Jeez, now he is arguing by proxy by proxy by proxy by proxy by proxy by proxy by proxy by proxy.

1) Tom West writes about...

2) John Adams who wrote about...

3) The Declaration of Independence which was written by...

4) Thomas Jefferson and altered by...

5-8) the rest of the Committe of Five

I think Stone has become Borg.
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:dl:
It's rare that I get to use the dog laugh, but that earns it.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Well, if you assume the same things Stone does, then it's pretty obvious they can't. Of course, his assumptions are false, but not everyone can be correct. A couple of his assumptions are 1. Atheists are immoral and 2. good citizens have to moral.
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o_rly.jpg
 
I stopped reading at the point where Neuhaus lies about the translation of a-theos.
 
Atheists can be the best of citizens-- you know all those bizarre religions you don't want influencing policy? We disbelieve in them just as much as we disbelieve in yours.

It would be fabulous to not know or care what people believe any more than they know or care what I believe.

If people think it's important for people to know what they "believe in"--they can tell us, and we will evaluate the claims on the merits like we do all other opinions and beliefs.
 
Neither Jefferson nor Lincoln were religious... they might not have labeled themselves atheists... I'm sure that to do so would be political suicide just as it is now due to bigoted nothingness spread by true believers.
 
AmyWilson said:
America is one nation UNDER GOD. Atheists are not as patriotic as Christians are. If you hate God so much, than go to godless Sweden or the Netherlands, where its crime ridden, and abortions galore, because it doesn't believe in God.
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I can't decide whether you are a troll or a really ignorant person. Or both.
 
Did anyone ask the question of whether "being a good citizen" is a good thing to begin with?

I try to be a good person. I could care less about being a good citizen.

The two categories often do not fully overlap.
 
Darth Rotor said:
I will pick another nit, if you will indulge me.

A good citizen would be expected to abide by the Constitution, or, to attempt to reform it (along with other like minded citizens) via the Constitutionally agreed process when said citizen at odds with what the Constitution contains. (See women's suffrage for an example of said reform attempts.)

The only people I would expect to defend the Constitution would be those who so swore, like all members of Congress, Executive Branch, etc, who take official oaths to do so, and those inclined to defend its merits on political or philosophicls grounds.

That leaves a lot of perfectly good citizens who are content to simply acknowledge and abide by it, delegating to their duly elected officials, etcetera as above, the task of defending the Constitution.

DR
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Give me a break! That prescription shampoo is expensive.

But yes, good point.
 
articulett said:
Neither Jefferson nor Lincoln were religious...
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That's just not right. Now, I'll happily admit that we can't get inside their heads and actually read their thoughts, but otherwise the amount of counter-evidence to that claim is simply staggering.

Unless, of course, you mean that they were not members of any church or sect. Which is true enough, I suppose. However, both believed in the importance of divine providence and Christianity was incredibly important for and taken seriously by both.
 
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