Cameron hails end of New Labour!

[Undesired Walrus]

Blair phase 2 has hailed the end of New Labour with the conservatives winning their first by-election in 26 years.

It seems more and more likely Cameron will be waking up as Prime Minister in 2009/10, if he keeps the wheels on his parties current momentum.

I wish I had something solid to offer the undecideds at the next election, yet all I have is a wheezing, out-of-touch government that invades foriegn countries and allows the richest 10% to get even richer. As a social democrat, I wish I could cross confidently the box entitled Labour come election day, but it seems more likely I will be spoiling the ballot paper with 'Rational social democracy PLS' in big letters. Labour's achievment of lifting 1 million children out of child poverty, devolution and higher employment seems to be eclipsed by their ability to displace millions of Iraqis and look tired and vacuous with their current cabinet.

I'm not really sure a party should have to 'reinvent' itself every couple of years, but Britain seems to suffer very badly from time-for-a-change, and the Labour party cannot seem to catch up.

Do you think a party should try and 'keep up' with the public so as to not appear old and outdated, or do you think they should stick to what they have always been? Are you likely to vote conservative?

 

[SpitfireIX]

Is anyone else struck by the tremendous irony that Labour (liberal) in Britain appears to be headed in exactly the same direction as the Republicans (conservative) in America?

Granted, the analogy is far from perfect. John McCain is no Gordon Brown (I'd say that Mitt Romney is the closest the Republicans have to GB), and David Cameron doesn't have Margaret Thatcher's husband challenging him for the party leadership, but I can't help noticing the many other similarities, in particular the dismal performance of both parties in recent elections.

 

[fagin]

Anything has to be an improvement over the paternalistic attempts by Labour at social engineering. I am sick to death of hearing about how it is their job to change behaviour by passing more and more laws that are impossible or impractical to enforce. people drink too much, eat too much, drive too much etc. If you can't ban it, tax it.
A recent example is the change in the classification of mary jane, against the advice of their experts, while people are actually worried about the economy.
Fiidling while Rome burns?

 

[Uzzy]

I'll likely be voting Conservative at the next election, though if they propose cutting back the BBC, I'll have a seriously hard time doing it.

Why won't I be voting Labour? Simple. One, I'm 21 right now. I was Ten last time the Conservatives were in power, and 4 when Black Tuesday occurred. I have no real knowledge of what things were like the last time the Conservatives were in power. So, every time you get Hazel Blears or one of the other Cabinet ministers come on TV and blame the Tories for something, I'm rather appalled. It was 11 years ago. Labour have had 3 terms in office to fix things. They should take responsibility for their own failures.

Oh. The 10p Tax issue. It is utterly disgraceful that the inheritors of Hardie, Attlee and Bevan to be putting forward proposals that directly attack the lowest paid in society. It would be disgraceful if the Tories or the Lib Dems proposed it, but for Labour to do it? Further, the emergency borrowing to bribe the electorate just about managed to destroy any hint of economic competence Labour had.

I just think it's time for a change.

 

[albion]

Is anyone else struck by the tremendous irony that Labour (liberal) in Britain appears to be headed in exactly the same direction as the Republicans (conservative) in America?

Granted, the analogy is far from perfect. John McCain is no Gordon Brown (I'd say that Mitt Romney is the closest the Republicans have to GB), and David Cameron doesn't have Margaret Thatcher's husband challenging him for the party leadership, but I can't help noticing the many other similarities, in particular the dismal performance of both parties in recent elections.

I don't really think US/UK comparisons are particularly useful because the left-right dynamic in this country is vastly different. Even the Tory party (which has been our most right-wing mainstream party) would not be much to the right of your Democrat party. They at least pay lip service to supporting the NHS (not for profit single-payer "socialized" healthcare)for example, which only Kucinich in the US supports.

Brown despite some forays into privatisation (Post-Office, PPP etc) is not a total Free-Marketer like Romney.

 

[albion]

Anything has to be an improvement over the paternalistic attempts by Labour at social engineering. I am sick to death of hearing about how it is their job to change behaviour by passing more and more laws that are impossible or impractical to enforce. people drink too much, eat too much, drive too much etc. If you can't ban it, tax it.
A recent example is the change in the classification of mary jane, against the advice of their experts, while people are actually worried about the economy.
Fiidling while Rome burns?

To be fair, these policies (particularly regards to pot) are an attempt to appeal to the Tory leaning swing voters in the South East. It is also supported whole-heartedly by the Tory party

"The Conservative party has a very clear view that it should be class B. People have had enough of reviews and the prime minister should stop dithering and get on and make a decision."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/apr/03/drugspolicy

They have also supported just about every socially authoritarian measure the government has proposed including Asbo's etc.

Essentially it's change for the sake of change - despite it not being a change at all.


At the moment my voting intentions are Lib-Dem because despite being flawed, wishy-washy and unable to win, they are the only party I could in good conscience as a Social Democrat support.

 

[andyandy]

The 10p tax fiasco (TM all papers) really has removed the last barrier for people to vote Conservative. Everyone knows deep down that the Conservatives won't look after the worst paid workers, but by showing that labour don't really care either, lots of voters who have plenty of other grievances with the government are now willing to give the other side a try.......

Labour really is a pretty right wing party now, what with attempts to privatise large chunks of the health, education, transport, postal service either overtly or by stealth, with its insistence on 42 day detention, with its obsession with ID cards and Big Brother surveillance, with its tax cuts for the rich and tax hikes for the poor, with its refusal to sign up against cluster bombs and desire to press on with nuclear rearmament......

I think people are just saying " right, we've had enough of this right wing party, let's have a look at the other one."

In an ideal world, we would have a hung parliament with the Lib Dems as kingmakers and able to push through a swing to the left, but the way things are going, we could have a big Conservative majority, which I think will be just as unhealthy for the country as what we've got now.

 

[Rolfe]

I suppose schadenfreude is one of the Seven Deadly Sins?

I'm going to hell, then.

Rolfe.

 

[SpitfireIX]

I suppose schadenfreude is one of the Seven Deadly Sins?

I'm going to hell, then.

Rolfe.

Out of curiosity, how do the major national parties feel about Scottish independence?

 

[mrbaracuda]

Come on, vote Tory. You know you want it!

 

[Rolfe]

Out of curiosity, how do the major national parties feel about Scottish independence?

About as happy as they are about global warming and the subprime mortgage situation combined.

It's difficult to tease the reasons out of them, mostly they just seem to take "the union" as an unexamined good. However, it's a combination of (for Scottish politicians) wanting to keep on playing with the big boys at Westminster where they have a fantastic gravy train going and a nuclear button to boot, and (for English politicians) the unspoken realisation that it is Scottish assets that have bankrolled the boom times since the 1970s, and without these, the rump state would be feeling the cold more than a bit.

Cameron targets Nationalists in battle to safeguard the Union

Part of the Union

Prime Minister in rallying cry to defend the Union

These should give a flavour of it.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Come on, vote Tory. You know you want it!

On a cold day in Hell.

Thank goodness I have a real alternative to vote for, with a credible chance of winning, and I'm not just stuck with Tory-dum and Tory-dee.

Rolfe.

 

[mrbaracuda]

On a cold day in Hell.

Isn't that what Britain's like these days anyway? Cold and hell?
"It's a nice day to vote Tory!"

 

[Finnegan]

Come on, vote Tory. You know you want it!

This is partly the point. The self-congratulation of the Conservative Party is essentially futile, as people aren't voting for them but against Labour.

 

[Gurdur]

Oppostions do not win elections, but on the contrary governments lose them.

 

[andyandy]

This is partly the point. The self-congratulation of the Conservative Party is essentially futile, as people aren't voting for them but against Labour.

I would certainly agree that people are voting against Labour, but in previous by-elections that would result in protest votes for the Liberal Democrats. What we have now is a proactive choice for the main opposition party. The Conservatives have picked up 6000 new votes in Crewe, something pretty unthinkable only a year ago.

 

[Fiona]

I think it is very interesting. So far as I can see, Margaret Thatcher was a very successful politician, according to conventional wisdom, anyway. Yet she destroyed her party completely and they are only now recovering because, as Uzzy said, many who can now vote have absolutely no idea what it was like. Tony Blair has done exactly the same to the labour party. It would be funny if it were not for the fact that it effectively disenfranchises many people. I also have the option of voting for independence for this country and I will do so. Nothing could induce me to vote for either labour or conservative. I see very little difference between them. Our system makes it very unlikely that voters in England will choose a third party, since no truly viable alternative has emerged: so they have no choice but to try the other lot if they want a change. This will make things a little worse, perhaps, but it certainly won't make them better.

I am really glad I do not live in England. So are the many many english people, who having got what they wished for have now moved abroad.

 

[fagin]

Bring back the Raving Monster Lunatic Party

 

[andyandy]

Bring back the Raving Monster Lunatic Party

The monster raving loony party was running in Crewe, their candidate was called Flying Brick......

Edward Timpson (Con) 20,539 (49.49%, 16.93% increase on 2005 share of vote)
Tamsin Dunwoody (Lab) 12,679 (30.55%, -18.29%)
Elizabeth Shenton (Lib Dem) 6,040 (14.55%, -4.03%)
Mike Nattrass (UKIP) 922 (2.22%)
Robert Smith (Green) 359 (0.87%)
David Roberts (Eng Dem) 275 (0.66%)
The Flying Brick (Monster Raving Loony) 236 (0.57%)
Mark Walklate (Ind) 217 (0.52%)
Paul Thorogood (Cut Tax on Diesel and Petrol) 118 (0.28%)
Gemma Garrett (Ind) 113 (0.27%)

He came a quite respectable seventh place

 

[Rolfe]

I am really glad I do not live in England. So are the many many english people, who having got what they wished for have now moved abroad.

I lived in England until quite recently. However, I was an active member of the SNP at the time, and managed to keep my vote in Scotland.

I remember a number of conversations where English friends said they envied me, having a real alternative to vote for. Even 15 or 20 years ago, way before the current Holyrood success story, I heard remarks such as "wouldn't the SNP just stand here in England too?".

I'm afraid, however, that the English are going to have to work it out for themselves. Unfortunately it appears as if too many English voters really do like the xenophobic Little Englander stance of the Conservatives.

Rolfe.

PS. Fagin, I understand that every single thing that was on the original MRL Party manifesto when they were formed is now law, with the single exception of the legalisation of cannabis.