Merged Call the midwife - first woman head of Church of England

[The Atheist]

The dear old Anglicans.

I was born, raised and baptised an Anglican, and while I turned my back on them before I got to my teens, I still always found them to be the most acceptable face of religion.

My first marriage, in 1978 (to what is considered a child bride in the 21st century) was in an Anglican church. My fiancee was an Anglican and wanted to get married in a church, so we went along to some services to find a vicar we liked. We both thoroughly liked interacting with the sole woman reverend, so we asked if she'd officiate. NZ has always at the liberal point of social issues and I'm pretty sure she wasn't the country's first female reverend even then.

We are informed by my intending father in law that was unacceptable and he would not give his permission for his daughter to marry if we had a female celebrant, so we didn't, there being not Gretna Green in NZ.

It's taken under 50 years to go from that to a woman ABC. I do hope the C of E holds up under the strain of the grey hairs crying about it.

 

[Helen]

Well they're Swedes....

That is true. And apart from being Swedes in general, Swedes are not fond of confrontations, so there are probably loads of very inwardly angry Christians misogynists, with theirs fists clenched on their pockets, in the swedish church these days - not just about female Arch- as well as non-arch bishops and priests, but about all the usual suspects (lbtq+, immigrants, Romanian beggars), whom Jesus, according to them, would never allow in church...

So maybe there is still a chance that it will implode? But then they have always predicted the downfall of our meek and mild and reasonably tolerant church - it was supposed to happen when they allowed women to become priests, then when the church was separated from the state, and then with the female Archbishop. I suspect it is held together by its sheer blandness, much like the Swedish monarchy. It's just not possible to get a majority of the population worked up enough to begin to demand actual change.

 

[catsmate]

That is true. And apart from being Swedes in general, Swedes are not fond of confrontations, so there are probably loads of very inwardly angry Christians misogynists, with theirs fists clenched on their pockets, in the swedish church these days - not just about female Arch- as well as non-arch bishops and priests, but about all the usual suspects (lbtq+, immigrants, Romanian beggars), whom Jesus, according to them, would never allow in church...

So maybe there is still a chance that it will implode? But then they have always predicted the downfall of our meek and mild and reasonably tolerant church - it was supposed to happen when they allowed women to become priests, then when the church was separated from the state, and then with the female Archbishop. I suspect it is held together by its sheer blandness, much like the Swedish monarchy. It's just not possible to get a majority of the population worked up enough to begin to demand actual change.

Aren't most of the pastors of the Swedish Lutheran church actually atheists?

 

[Helen]

Not that they'd admit to; their god beliefs are very vague, but they will all attest to believing in a sort of god-shaped something, and they all look upon the bible as a bunch of metaphorical stories, which you can use as you like. The misogynist bigots are more fundamentalist, although nothing even close to real fundamentalism, but they are the minority - had they been the majority, the swedish Lutheran church would probably be dead and buried by now. Instead it thrives on its secular-adjacent blandness.

 

[catsmate]

So I lunched with an insider today.
Questions are being asked about Mullally's handling of the Elliot Review into the CoE's handling of sexual abuse reports.

She appears to have become the only choice, based on the leaked shortlist of possible candidates.
Pete Wilcox is an evangelical, part of the conservative wing of the CoE, and they had their turn. Michael Beasley was too inexperienced. Guli Francis-Dehqani favours same-sex relationships (he's a '44') and is a liberal-moderate, so seen as 'divisive'.

So Mullally was left, a moderate-conservative and part of Welby’s clique, an insider and organiser. Not a good communicator and moderately unpopular with the safeguarding and CSAS groups.
Don't expect much in the way of change.

ETA: gods damned auto-correct, I lunch more than I punch.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Don't expect much in the way of change.

Except perhaps a schism in which the conservative churches split off. Lots of those in Africa.

 

[catsmate]

Except perhaps a schism in which the conservative churches split off. Lots of those in Africa.

Oh yes. If she wants to avoid shedding the nasties Mullally will have to stay quiet on a lot of issues. No embracing the '44'.

 

[zooterkin]

Oh yes. If she wants to avoid shedding the nasties Mullally will have to stay quiet on a lot of issues. No embracing the '44'.

What's the meaning of 44?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Well, minus the misogynistic bits that decide to depart in the near future.

And have departed in the past, quite a few of whom rejoined the rcc towing their wives behind them.

 

[catsmate]

And have departed in the past, quite a few of whom rejoined the rcc towing their wives behind them.

But still remained ordained.

 

[catsmate]

And have departed in the past, quite a few of whom rejoined the rcc towing their wives behind them.

But still remained ordained

What's the meaning of 44?

The 44 CoE bishops who signed the statement (published NOV2023) which called for clergy to be permitted to enter same-sex civil marriages, and for bishops to ordain and license such clergy.

There is more background here:

Don’t delay guidance allowing priests to be in same-sex marriages, say 44 bishops

A GROUP of 44 bishops made a public statement on Wednesday afternoon expressing their hope that past...

www.churchtimes.co.uk