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California seizing guns

Not really. You cannot be in possession of a firearm twice, which is what you're saying.

The firearm is the crime. The enhanced penalty that you're referring to, is for people who rob a store, or carjack someone. Felon in possession of a firearm IS the crime, it is not two crimes. Does that make sense?
 
If the police have reason to believe a person is illegally possessing a gun, then they get a warrent to seize the property. If the police see contraband, they seize it. How else should it be done? Isn't this the way property is normally seized?

Ranb

So basically the honor system for the insane and criminal. Nothing to say actualy prevent them from getting weapons.
 
Or, how about not infringing on the innocent party's rights to own that weapon. Seems pretty simple to me.

If for some unknown reason my wife or one of my kids was declared crazy by a court (I suspect my wife is crazy already, but "redhead" doesn't legally qualify :D ) why would I, a law abiding, non-mental person, be required to forefit MY rights? I can understand the courts asking me to remove the weapon, but seizing it is wrong, IMO.
So what about something to actually make you get rid of it?
 
Not really. You cannot be in possession of a firearm twice, which is what you're saying.

The firearm is the crime. The enhanced penalty that you're referring to, is for people who rob a store, or carjack someone. Felon in possession of a firearm IS the crime, it is not two crimes. Does that make sense?

I think that you are missing what was being said.

You own a gun legally. Now let's say that one day you get mad with your neighbour and clock him around the head with a tire iron. You get caught, convicted and sentenced for assault with a deadly weapon, a felony. It is now illegal for you to hold the guns you previously held legally.

Now when you get out of jail you fail to dispose of the weapons, but hold onto them. You are now commiting a new felony, possession of an illegal weapon. As such the Police do have the right to seize that weapon as it is part of the crime of possessing an illegal weapon, and there should be no compensation for that seizure.
 
I think that you are missing what was being said.

You own a gun legally. Now let's say that one day you get mad with your neighbour and clock him around the head with a tire iron. You get caught, convicted and sentenced for assault with a deadly weapon, a felony. It is now illegal for you to hold the guns you previously held legally.

Now when you get out of jail you fail to dispose of the weapons, but hold onto them. You are now commiting a new felony, possession of an illegal weapon. As such the Police do have the right to seize that weapon as it is part of the crime of possessing an illegal weapon, and there should be no compensation for that seizure.

That's fine (although I do think that the person should either be given an opportunity to sell it through a third party through consignment or to gift it to someone else (with the proper paperwork showing that they did so) when they are first released). That still doesn't address that it is perfectly legal in California for me to own a small arm while having a roommate who had, lets say a drug related non-violent felony who can't be in possession of a weapon. It can't be in his room or in a common area (or in his hand at any time obviously) but there's nothing illegal about that but these guys are going around without a warrant trying to cajole their way into grabbing guns from people who don't have a felony or mental health record and then not compensating them for them once they have them, and in fact are destroying them instead.
 
I think that you are missing what was being said.

You own a gun legally. Now let's say that one day you get mad with your neighbour and clock him around the head with a tire iron. You get caught, convicted and sentenced for assault with a deadly weapon, a felony. It is now illegal for you to hold the guns you previously held legally.

Now when you get out of jail you fail to dispose of the weapons, but hold onto them. You are now commiting a new felony, possession of an illegal weapon. As such the Police do have the right to seize that weapon as it is part of the crime of possessing an illegal weapon, and there should be no compensation for that seizure.

Ok, that's not what I read, nor is it what was really posted, but I understand the clarification.

You're correct, however, that is not what is occurring, as Sam I Am has explained.
 
As to the 'how' a police force can seize firearms - I can tell you how it happened to my family in Canada.

My dad had a handgun that was illegal in Canada (or at least, illegal without very specific, expensive & complicated hoops to jump through.)

He hadn't taken it to the range or done anything with it for years. It was stored safely in the house, under lock & key, with the (unloaded) clip stored separately. It was simply something that he had because it was a family item. Would never dream of using it to defend against a B&E or anything - it would take far too long to retrieve it, in order to be useful in that regard.

My mother, during a manic episode, called the RCMP and notified them that there was an illegal handgun in the house.

The RCMP attended the house in force. They then contacted my father at his place of work. He was given the choice to surrender the firearm (have it seized) without any further to-do, or to take his day in court and face a charge for possession of a restricted weapon. He told them where the gun was stored, how to get it out of storage, retrieve the clip, and he chose option A.

And that is how my Grandfather's Colt .32 met its demise.

It is labour-intensive, but if a state wants to reduce the numbers of certain types of weapons, it certainly can be done.
 
It is labour-intensive, but if a state wants to reduce the numbers of certain types of weapons, it certainly can be done.

This is the problem. Let's say that you have 30 million gun owners and can search 1,000 homes a day for weapons. It would take you over 82 years to confiscate all the guns.
 
Well, no active searching took place in the example I provided. It was an intra-family rat-out if you will.

Anyways - I don't have a horse in this particular race. Y'all can figure out what y'all want to do with your guns. I am not anti-gun, but having watched 'Doomsday Preppers' I really do think that things may be a little out of hand, and perhaps not precisely what the 2nd Amendment really intended.
 
I have a big problem with the US population’s attitude to guns. Why the hell do they want them?

All these arguments, as one of those above, that not permitting people to own guns will lead to (in this case) Hitler, don’t seem to me to make sense. Some people seem to enjoy playing with bang-bangs. I don’t. All these argument seem to me to be spurious.

... (snip)

Paul -- "The US population" doesn't have that attitude to guns. Americans have a wide variety of attitudes to guns. There are people who own and use guns safely and reasonably (as, people in rural areas where guns are used for hunting and personal safety--places where bears, poisonous snakes or wild boar are common--or people who do only range shooting); people who carry guns for self-defense because they are in a high-risk situation, as some business owners in certain communities with a high incidence of robbery; people who own guns but treat them far too casually, keeping them loaded and not in secure cabinets; irrational people who act like they are going to ambushed by the gummint's jack-booted thugs any day now.

Just as in many other fields of interest, the most extreme and vocal minorities, both pro- and anti- gun, get the most media coverage. Most American churches are nothing like the "God hates Fags" idiots, and many (I would guess a majority) of the people who own guns are in favor of reasonable regulation and safety measures.

As someone who grew up in a family that hunted and ate game animals (hey, 7 kids and one wage-earner, it was needed) with guns in the home, I know that even people who have guns in the bedroom closet can be safe in how they handle them. However, those guns were stolen in a robbery, so I regret that my parents had not invested in a gun safe. I do not own any firearms, and I don't know if I ever will; and I favor mandatory training, background checks on public or private gun sales, and liability insurance for compensation should your gun be stolen and used to commit a crime. (If you've taken reasonable precaution with your gun handling and storage, and they are stolen anyway, you should then be held not liable.) Am I the "American population" you're so concerned about?

Anyone whose first line of argument is, "If you don't agree with me, then HITLER!" is clearly a wingnut. But that's true in any arena, not just gun control and not just Americans.

There are people in America that would love to see a "no guns" policy; people who want open carry rights everywhere and any time; and all variants in between. Like so many things in this large and diverse country, it's inexact to talk about the American perspective as though there were only one.

FWIW, I am in favor of taking illegally possessed guns away and destroying them -- felons, etc. -- and some mechanism for taking them away and storing them for sale or later return or destruction if the owner is impacted by a household member's actions (as the mental patient's spouse). That seems to me a reasonable way to protect the innocent party's rights AND protect the public.

Just my thoughts, MK
 
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure I follow.

That depending on the insane and criminals not to break the law isn't that good an idea and maybe something serious should be done. Not going to happen I know, gun owners like to be able to sell their guns to criminals but still a dream.
 
That depending on the insane and criminals not to break the law isn't that good an idea and maybe something serious should be done. Not going to happen I know, gun owners like to be able to sell their guns to criminals but still a dream.


All these gun threads I (son of a pistol smith) choose to stay out of regardless of ignorant statements (sexual excitement being my personal least favorite), this is the one that draws me in.

Well done.

:(

Carry on ignoramus.
 
liability insurance for compensation should your gun be stolen and used to commit a crime. (If you've taken reasonable precaution with your gun handling and storage, and they are stolen anyway, you should then be held not liable.)
Besides the obvious problems of requiring insurance to excercise a Constitutional right, just how can you insure your stolen gun? Guns can easily last 100 or more years, you'd basically have to pre-pay a centuries worth of insurance. How that is "reasonable" and "sensible" is beyond me.

And the insurance company really has no idea how your guns are stored, just as they have no idea how good your door locks are or whether you even bother to lock them at all. So no, I don't see any substantial discount for storing them "safely". Insurance can't assess the risk of the unknown.
 
This is the problem. Let's say that you have 30 million gun owners and can search 1,000 homes a day for weapons. It would take you over 82 years to confiscate all the guns.
If you have registration you don't need to search 30 million homes. You only need to send out 30 million letters threatening prosecution unless you prove you no longer have the gun.

And that's something they can do in a heartbeat, even on a much larger scale than 30 million. See income tax compliance for an example.
 
All these gun threads I (son of a pistol smith) choose to stay out of regardless of ignorant statements (sexual excitement being my personal least favorite), this is the one that draws me in.

Well done.

:(

Carry on ignoramus.

They manage to block any system that would stop it. So clearly by their actions thet want it.
 
Well, no active searching took place in the example I provided. It was an intra-family rat-out if you will.

Anyways - I don't have a horse in this particular race. Y'all can figure out what y'all want to do with your guns. I am not anti-gun, but having watched 'Doomsday Preppers' I really do think that things may be a little out of hand, and perhaps not precisely what the 2nd Amendment really intended.

So how many millions of years would it take for enough wives to get mad at complacent fathers who decide to keep a firearm as a keepsake to effect any real change in the availability of firearms for criminals?

Wow, just wow.

As someone who grew up in a family that hunted and ate game animals (hey, 7 kids and one wage-earner, it was needed) with guns in the home, I know that even people who have guns in the bedroom closet can be safe in how they handle them. However, those guns were stolen in a robbery, so I regret that my parents had not invested in a gun safe. I do not own any firearms, and I don't know if I ever will; and I favor mandatory training, background checks on public or private gun sales, and liability insurance for compensation should your gun be stolen and used to commit a crime. (If you've taken reasonable precaution with your gun handling and storage, and they are stolen anyway, you should then be held not liable.) Am I the "American population" you're so concerned about?

So because your parents had their guns stolen, and you imagine that they have been used to harm others, you think it appropriate that all gun owners keep insurance or be held liable for the actions of someone who broke the law to steal the gun in the first place, and then again broke the law to create the situation for liability? You want the owner to be liable, not the perpetrator?

Really?
 
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Or, how about not infringing on the innocent party's rights to own that weapon. Seems pretty simple to me.

If for some unknown reason my wife or one of my kids was declared crazy by a court (I suspect my wife is crazy already, but "redhead" doesn't legally qualify :D ) why would I, a law abiding, non-mental person, be required to forefit MY rights? I can understand the courts asking me to remove the weapon, but seizing it is wrong, IMO.

And if the courts ask you to remove the guns from the home, even notify you that such removal is required, then what?

Let's say you refuse to remove them. Should they be confiscated at that point? Or should they just keep sending notices?

At some point seizure is the right answer, the discussion is where is that point.
 
"I'm okay with reasonable gun control laws, as long as they're never enforced."
 
And if the courts ask you to remove the guns from the home, even notify you that such removal is required, then what?

Let's say you refuse to remove them. Should they be confiscated at that point? Or should they just keep sending notices?

At some point seizure is the right answer, the discussion is where is that point.

Ridiculous to begin with, I object to the government telling me what property I can own in my own home because a person has a medical condition who lives with me.

If something bad happens, and later determined to be due to negligence I am already fully liable under the current law.

This is just another idea in the theme of creating as much pain for gun owners as possible knowing full well many will just choose to go unarmed. Then those who propose such concepts will turn around and joyfully point out how rare it is for someone to defend themselves and never shall the cognitive dissonance be mentioned.
 
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