California Proposition 8

[not_so_new]

I am very pleased with Barack Obama's win.... but I have to say my exuberance is tempered with a good bit of sadness for the passage of Prop 8 in California.

The sadly ironic part. The gay community was almost completely behind Barack but in the end, from the poll numbers I have heard, it was mostly the African American vote that got Prop 8 passed adding a Constitution amendment to ban gay marriage in California.

More ironic perhaps, Barack ran on a message of unity and inclusion. Of all the electorate Black American's should understand how it feels to be excluded. "Inclusion" was the underlying message that attracted them to Obama in the first place.

Even in my joy and relief at Obama's win, as a white straight male, today I am truly sad for my gay friends.

We do have much work to do still in our nation.

 

[joobz]

nothing to add, except that's an amazingly well written sentiment.
nominated for it's brevity and weight.

 

[Nursefoxfire]

I am very pleased with Barack Obama's win.... but I have to say my exuberance is tempered with a good bit of sadness for the passage of Prop 8 in California.

The sadly ironic part. The gay community was almost completely behind Barack but in the end, from the poll numbers I have heard, it was mostly the African American vote that got Prop 8 passed adding a Constitution amendment to ban gay marriage in California.

More ironic perhaps, Barack ran on a message of unity and inclusion. Of all the electorate Black American's should understand how it feels to be excluded. "Inclusion" was the underlying message that attracted them to Obama in the first place.

Even in my joy and relief at Obama's win, as a white straight male, today I am truly sad for my gay friends.

We do have much work to do still in our nation.

I have many Mormon family members, some of whom live in CA. There was a HUGE LDS church campaign to get this Prop passed. And from what I've read, it was the second most costly campaign effort behind the actual Presidency ($74 million).

My husband also remarked that CA has a large Hispanic population. Perhaps the Catholic vote counted here as well.

p.s. the dog in your avatar is lovely!

 

[NotJesus]

It's very disappointing. This issue is destined to end up in the courts... again.

 

[Pookster]

It's very disappointing. This issue is destined to end up in the courts... again.

IMO, it's destined to go before the US Supreme Court eventually. I can only hope that, when the opportunity arises, Obama will nominate Justices who respect the rights of all citizens.

 

[Walter Bellhaven]

Marriage is about the true love of Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

 

[not_so_new]

nothing to add, except that's an amazingly well written sentiment.
nominated for it's brevity and weight.

Thank you joobz.

Among other gays I consider friends, a lesbian couple moved into the house next to us in May. They are great folks, I really enjoy their company.

Over the summer "The Girls" as we call them decided to get married. Planning the trip to California was an exciting adventure, who to invite, how to get there, what to take with them, where to stay. Underlying all of this was a feeling of relief knowing that there was a safe haven in our nation that understood and accepted them.

We went with them to the polling center last night to vote, we were all happy and relaxed, walking on air to be part of history. Today I don't know how to talk to them about California.... I just don't know what to say.

I am really frustrated and hurt, these are good people that have a huge letdown in front of them. Knowing there is little I can do to help is maybe the most frustrating of all.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

In 2000, the people of California spoke loud and clear when they passed proposition 22. We do not support the notion that sexual perversions are to be treated as equivalent to a normal, healthy family structure. Earlier this year, corrupt judges ignored the will of the people, and overturned 22. Last night, the people spoke again, and once again, the perverts lost.

 

[ZirconBlue]

In 2000, the people of California spoke loud and clear when they passed proposition 22. We do not support the notion that sexual perversions are to be treated as equivalent to a normal, healthy family structure. Earlier this year, corrupt judges ignored the will of the people, and overturned 22. Last night, the people spoke again, and once again, the perverts lost.

So, do you support camera's in all married households to verify that no married couples are performing "sexual perversions"? Because I guarantee that there are straight couples performing sexual acts you don't approve of.

 

[not_so_new]

In 2000, the people of California spoke loud and clear when they passed proposition 22. We do not support the notion that sexual perversions are to be treated as equivalent to a normal, healthy family structure. Earlier this year, corrupt judges ignored the will of the people, and overturned 22. Last night, the people spoke again, and once again, the perverts lost.

Bigotry in the highest order.

If you are not one of us you are less than us?

Blacks on the back of the bus, throw the Mexicans in prison or accost the border, American Indians should stay on their reservations where they belong?

I understand.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

In 2000, the people of California spoke loud and clear when they passed proposition 22. We do not support the notion that sexual perversions are to be treated as equivalent to a normal, healthy family structure. Earlier this year, corrupt judges ignored the will of the people, and overturned 22. Last night, the people spoke again, and once again, the perverts lost.

Ha. Ha. You're going to LOVE the next four years with your new president.

From his speech last night:

It's the answer spoken by young and old, rich and poor, Democrat and Republican, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, gay, straight, disabled and not disabled, Americans who sent a message to the world that we have never been just a collection of individuals or a collection of red states and blue states.

(Bolding mine.)

 

[chipmunk stew]

In 2000, the people of California spoke loud and clear when they passed proposition 22. We do not support the notion that sexual perversions are to be treated as equivalent to a normal, healthy family structure. Earlier this year, corrupt judges ignored the will of the people, and overturned 22. Last night, the people spoke again, and once again, the perverts lost.

This is a great demonstration of the most repugnant aspect of this whole thing. Some anonymous douchebag thinks it's icky, and, on that basis alone, claims the right to put legal limits on the choices made among other consenting adults.

 

[Darat]

Marriage is about the true love of Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

So you support incest.

 

[Fordama]

In 2000, the people of California spoke loud and clear when they passed proposition 22. We do not support the notion that sexual perversions are to be treated as equivalent to a normal, healthy family structure. Earlier this year, corrupt judges ignored the will of the people, and overturned 22. Last night, the people spoke again, and once again, the perverts lost.

You mean the perverts won? To remove the civil rights of people is a perverted act.

Secondly, Prop 22 was clearly contrary to the California Constitution, and a panel of Republican appointed judges overturned Prop 22. There was nothing corrupt about the decision--it was a no-brainer.

As far as the people "speaking" goes, it passed by a very narrow margin this time. Prop 22 won with over 61% of the vote. Prop 8 passed by just a point or two. There is no reason to think such a trend would change given. The proponents of Proposition 8 used extremely deceptive advertisements, and sooner of later such lies won't be able to hold up.

Fordama

 

[Pookster]

In 2000, the people of California spoke loud and clear when they passed proposition 22. We do not support the notion that sexual perversions are to be treated as equivalent to a normal, healthy family structure. Earlier this year, corrupt judges ignored the will of the people, and overturned 22. Last night, the people spoke again, and once again, the perverts lost.

When Obama was born, about 30 States still had laws against people of different races getting married. Gallup polls at the time showed the biggest majority of Whites were opposed to mixed marriages. It was considered a perversion. Children of such marriages would be maladjusted and such. It's sad to see such ignorance as yours still exists today. But hopefully soon, your day will pass too.

 

[Thunder]

I am very surprised....even shocked...that 60% of the voters in Cali. voted for liberal social-democrat Barak Obama...and then did a complete 180 and voted to ban same-sex marriage.

Totally mystified. It makes no sense. Talk about being inconsistent.

I suggest they come up with a compromise allowing for same-sex domestic partnership.

 

[Thunder]

Bigotry in the highest order.

If you are not one of us you are less than us?

Blacks on the back of the bus, throw the Mexicans in prison or accost the border, American Indians should stay on their reservations where they belong?

I understand.

Now now, lets be honest here. No one is telling gay men and women they shouldnt be treated as complete citizens. The law simply states that a man can only marry an unrelated woman..and a woman can only marry an unrelated man. That means that cousins cant marry, fathers and sons cant marry, fathers and daughters cant marry, mothers and sons cant marry, mothers and daughters cant marry. This doesnt just "discriminate" against same-sex couples, it "discriminates" against all couples that society deems to be inappropriate for marriage.

It may not be "fair". It may not feel "right". But society has the right to make such rules. Do you really want to see mothers marrying their sons?

The comparison between banning gay marriage..and slavery/segregation/Apartheid is proposterous and insulting.

 

[Praktik]

Not sure if Bob Baylock was being serious, but if he was another person in the other Prop 8 thread mentioned how many (conservatives especially) seem to think of the judiciary as some extension of "the will of the people" and judgments are given a litmus test as to whether or not a decision conforms to the polling of the day.

This displays a frightful ignorance of the machinery of democracy: the judiciary is supposed to be insulated from the will of the people. Thats why you have lifetime appointments, its why here in Canada, we don't elect judges or DAs. The principle is one wherein the "will of the people" is expressed through the legislature, and the judiciary is there - apart from the "will of the people" - to determine legality based on other things, such as stare decisis, constitutionality, and so on.

Civics 101 man!!

EDIT: and while we're talking about the "will of the people" - let us remember that "the will of the people" is only sacrosanct in the paint-by-number realities of ideologues. There's a reason political science has developed a term called "tyranny of the majority" - that's right tyranny, and this proposition (along with the ban on ferrets I mentioned in the other thread) is a prime example of it...

 

[not_so_new]

We do not support the notion that sexual perversions are to be treated as equivalent to a normal, healthy family structure.

Here is a little "normal, healthy" family structure for you.... sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with having a "healthy" family.

Massachusetts has lowest divorce rates with gay marrage


Divorce rates significantly higher for conservative Christians


Two of the three little girls adopted by Mr. and Mrs. Bowman of Maryland are dead


Child killed for failing to say please


Man accused of killing wife in front of their children


Children removed from Rocky Point Drug Den

 

[Praktik]

With all this "Defense of Marriage" claptrap going on - how come we haven't seen any ballot initiatives banning divorce??