California First State to End Bail.

[The Atheist]

THis going to be an interesting court fight. It can be argued that basically ending Bail flys right in the face of the COnstitutional clause about a right to bail.

No, you're just out of touch with reality.

Asking a poor person to post $100k bail is exactly the same as denying bail.

ANd, anyway, I am skeptical about letting the politicians take over any part of the justice system.

What part are politicians playing in this?

It specifically states that the judicial system will still be in charge.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

No, you're just out of touch with reality.

Asking a poor person to post $100k bail is exactly the same as denying bail.



What part are politicians playing in this?

It specifically states that the judicial system will still be in charge.

You don't even have to be that extreme. NYTimes had a great article about the cities bail situation. They found that only 15% of people with bails set less than $500 were able to post and avoid pre-trial detention. For minor charges, it is entirely reasonable to accept a guilty plea, regardless of factual guilt, in order to get time served or probation rather than wait an indeterminate time in jail until a trial date.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/magazine/the-bail-trap.html

 

[Dr. Keith]

Replacing bail with bribing whomever is doing the risk assessment seems like a terrible deal.

I don't know, the judge may be cheaper than the bail bondsman. I mean they already got their overhead covered.

 

[Babbylonian]

I don't know, the judge may be cheaper than the bail bondsman. I mean they already got their overhead covered.

It's less the judge I would be concerned about than those compiling the reports. Then again, that's still a factor in the bail system.

At the end of the day, I hope California makes the system work better, but I'm quite cynical about the criminal justice system in general.

 

[jimbob]

That's how it works in NZ, UK and other more-enlightened countries.

I fail to see how putting a price on freedom is smart. It gives a lot of money to sleazy scum at the bottom of the gene pool who do bail bonds.

The change might still be racist, but probably better than the insane system where someone spends months in jail because they couldn't pay a $200 bond.



A backwards step to catch up to us?

How much corruption is there in NZ's system?

There have been a few mistakes, but zero cases of corruption. All tightening bail did here is cost us another $200,000,000 a year to keep the extra 3-4000 inmates locked up.

But it's ok - most of it's going to private prison contractors.

Now if I were to channel Ponderingturtle, I'd say that was smart if you want to help bail bondsmen make a good living.

 

[Tony]

ANd, anyway, I am skeptical about letting the politicians take over any part of the justice system.

They already have. The first clue was that they gave it the Orwellian name of "justice system".

 

[jimbob]

Local bail systems all over the country are simply rackets. Setting $15,000 bail for a charge that is dropped at the first court appearance is criminal, something I have dealt with personally when bailing out a relative who was simply visiting someone in a small town jail and had a cell phone in her purse. I wonder what the percentage of people arrested is who can reach out and raise $1500.00 cash or credit card for a bail bondsman from friends and relatives, but could never dream of raising the whole $15,000 themselves?

As an outsider, a lot of the US local justice system looks like that.

I wasn't joking when I was saying that it's a good system for bail bondsmen.

I'm starting to think that the Dukes of Hazard was actually a documentary - except they made Boss Hogg too likeable and competent.

 

[Tony]

As an outsider, a lot of the US local justice system looks like that.

As an insider, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Loss Leader]

There are other places that have more or less bail-less systems that actual work extremely well. This...doesn't seem like it's a well thought out as it easily could have been.

California's state motto is basically, "Ready, Fire, Aim." They have a habit of jumping into huge reforms without thinking it through fully. California's deregulation of the energy industry led directly to Enron's abuses.

Still, the bail system is very, very racist. I'm interested to see the results of this experiment.

 

[The Atheist]

You don't even have to be that extreme. NYTimes had a great article about the cities bail situation. They found that only 15% of people with bails set less than $500 were able to post and avoid pre-trial detention.

That's exactly the sort of outrageous situation that should - and can - be avoided by California's action.

 

[The Norseman]

I can only speak for myself but I'd prefer if legislators didn't pander towards outraged and irrational mobs.

How do you think California's three strikes laws get passed in the first place?

Naw, it's already part and parcel of the US "justice system."

I find the Euro's blind faith in Government to be amusing.

As opposed to... who? Blind faith in for-profit immoral mega corporations?

 

[Sherkeu]

So bail is gone and it's up to the local court to figure out how to decide cases. Seems reasonable. But does that mean they cannot charge for additional fees, county assessments, dna swabbing, and the cost of gps monitoring? We have lots of that in California and can add up to much more than the legally defined fine for the violation.

 

[The Atheist]

So bail is gone and it's up to the local court to figure out how to decide cases. Seems reasonable. But does that mean they cannot charge for additional fees, county assessments, dna swabbing, and the cost of gps monitoring? We have lots of that in California and can add up to much more than the legally defined fine for the violation.

Betcha however much it is it's a lot cheaper than banging thousands of people up because they couldn't afford $1000 bail.

 

[arthwollipot]

It's the "potentially creating a patchwork system based on where a suspect lives" part that worries me the most. What's to stop someone from deciding that specific poor black neighbourhoods are where most of the people most likely to reoffend come from, thereby making the new policy just as racist as the old?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

While California may be the first to totally eliminate cash bail, New Jersey came before and implemented a pretty good system that has largely eliminated cash bail. There's a very good NPR "Planet Money" podcast about the new NJ system for assessing pre-trial risk and making bond decisions:https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/07/12/536905881/episode-783-new-jersey-bails-out

Basically, key factors are used to calculate a person's risk level and bond is assigned based on that. Things like zip code or race are not used. You know it's good because the bail bond industry lobbied very aggressively against it.