Buying a PC advice (processor talk cont'd)

[Stainless_Steel_Rat]

Usually Intel lists the speed, 3.7 whatever... AMD's run at slower clock speeds, but are supposed to be equivelent (sp!) to the intel chip thier number equals (confusing I know.)

So an AMD 4200+ is supposed to be equal or exceed an Intel 4.7Ghz CPU, even though the AMD is only 2.2Ghz. It's becuase they use different computation methods, they can be different clock speeds, but still do the same ammount of work.

Anyways, I'm a bit confused why you're looking so hard at the clock speeds. Since you only plan on playing older games, why do you need a blazing fast CPU?

SSR

 

[Errata]

I call shenanigans. I saw nothing even remotely close to that price for what I'm asking.

I have to settle for what I want from Dell.com (etc) too. I didn't see any "we'll build it to your specs" option. Did I miss it?

Dude, if you didn't even figure out how to customize them, then no wonder you can't find what you want. Its a fairly simple interface. None of the default configurations match precisely what you want, but its not hard to configure one that way.

 

[jnelso99]

You are truly insane. I'm first in line.

Could just get one of these and use your imagination...

http://www.bustymousepads.com/

 

[egslim]

Anyone have a link to some handy-dandy chart that translates what the more common CPUs are speed-wise, ie Athlon 3700 = 3.0GHz or Celeron D = 2GHz or whatever?

Clockspeed doesn't tell you anything about performance, unless you know the underlying architecture. It's about as useful to know as the RPM of a carengine for determining performance.

In the old days Intel and AMD used the same architecture, so clockspeed would be proportional to performance. Nowadays they have completely diverged, so clockspeed has become useless as a metric.

The reason why we have those modelnumbers now is because too many ignorant people compared a 1.4GHz Athlon with a 1.4GHz Pentium 4, instead of the 1.8GHz P4 with which it was performance-comparable.
Of course, a few smart people would take advantage of this by buying a dirt-cheap Athlon.

So an AMD 4200+ is supposed to be equal or exceed an Intel 4.7Ghz CPU,

That would be a 4.2GHz Pentium 4.
Anyway, apart from the last AXP models I've found AMD's modelrating modest enough to be accurate. At the same rating P4 does slightly better for videocompression, Athlon64 is superior in games.

edited to add:
You should compare a Semprons' rating to a Celeron and a single core Athlon64's rating to a Pentium 4. Semprons and Athlon64's use a different rating system, just as a 2GHz P4 performs better than a 2GHz Celeron.
Dual core processors are different, because their performance gain comletely depends on wether you use multithreaded software. A dual core can perform anything between slightly worse (due to overhead) or twice as good compared to an equally clocked single core counterpart.

 

[Zep]

Heh! This is all stuff us big-systems "old guys" went through maybe 10-15 years ago, when SMP was first marketed. Nothing new here...

 

[kevin]

Dual core processors are different, because their performance gain comletely depends on wether you use multithreaded software.

This isn't quite true as dual core will also allow you to run multiple apps (even single threaded ones) simultaneously giving each process its own processor.

 

[Apollyon]

I'm normally not one to pimp websites, but if you're looking for a deal on a decent Dell system for cheap, this website has links to some great bargains. I ran across it lurking at Arstechnica where the guy who runs it hangs out. Plus this website doesn't sell you the systems but merely provides links to deals so there's no scamming involved. I've been using it for a few years to keep up on bargains.

http://www.gotapex.com/

Example: "DellHome - Dimension E510 Desktop with 2.80GHz Pentium D 820 Dual Core, 512MB DDR2, 80GB HD, CDRW/DVD Combo, and 20" UltraSharp 2007FP Widescreen LCD for $727.35 with FREE Shipping!"

You may not care about horsepower, but a nice big LCD monitor is a definite plus no matter what you use your system for.

There's also: "Update: If you want a higher end system, Dell Business has a Dimension 9150 with 2.8Ghz Pentium D 820, 1GB DDR2 SDRAM, 16x DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Burner, 160GB hard drive, and 17" Dell 1707FP UltraSharp LCD for just $689 with FREE shipping!"

Seems right up your alley.

 

[egslim]

This isn't quite true as dual core will also allow you to run multiple apps (even single threaded ones) simultaneously giving each process its own processor.

Correct, but for someone who says "Oh yeah, I'm not a hard-core gamer or graphics artist (etc) hence I don't need top of the line to say the least." I didn't think that was relevant. No need to make things even more complicated...

 

[bigred]

Dude, if you didn't even figure out how to customize them, then no wonder you can't find what you want. Its a fairly simple interface. None of the default configurations match precisely what you want, but its not hard to configure one that way.

Dude, thanks you've been a big help. Dude, I mean it, like, I'm all, dude.

 

[bigred]

I'm normally not one to pimp websites, but if you're looking for a deal on a decent Dell system for cheap, this website has links to some great bargains. I ran across it lurking at Arstechnica where the guy who runs it hangs out. Plus this website doesn't sell you the systems but merely provides links to deals so there's no scamming involved. I've been using it for a few years to keep up on bargains.

http://www.gotapex.com/

Example: "DellHome - Dimension E510 Desktop with 2.80GHz Pentium D 820 Dual Core, 512MB DDR2, 80GB HD, CDRW/DVD Combo, and 20" UltraSharp 2007FP Widescreen LCD for $727.35 with FREE Shipping!"

You may not care about horsepower, but a nice big LCD monitor is a definite plus no matter what you use your system for.

There's also: "Update: If you want a higher end system, Dell Business has a Dimension 9150 with 2.8Ghz Pentium D 820, 1GB DDR2 SDRAM, 16x DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Burner, 160GB hard drive, and 17" Dell 1707FP UltraSharp LCD for just $689 with FREE shipping!"

Seems right up your alley.

Actually I could give a flip about the brand as it's what's under the hood that counts, but this sounds interesting, will check it out - appreciate it!

 

[kevin]

Correct, but for someone who says "Oh yeah, I'm not a hard-core gamer or graphics artist (etc) hence I don't need top of the line to say the least." I didn't think that was relevant. No need to make things even more complicated...

True, but I've most non-computer people prefer the simpler description of "you can run multiple apps faster" than "only get one if you have multi-threaded apps" without also explaining what a multi-threaded app is or which apps are typically multi-threaded.

 

[Apollyon]

Actually I could give a flip about the brand as it's what's under the hood that counts, but this sounds interesting, will check it out - appreciate it!

n/p

I build my own systems and have for 14 years. But for those who don't Dell makes decent systems for the price and has some very nice LCDs as well.

The nice thing about the system I linked is that it doesn't use an integrated video card and has a 16X PCI slot so if you decide that a new game strikes your fancy, or if you need additional video horsepower for another reason, the upgrade path to a new video card is easily done. Plus that 20" LCD would normally cost @ half of the price they are charging for that entire system. It's tough to beat that price for what you get.

 

[bigred]

Cool. Although I wonder what - all specs being equal, at least on the surface - what the advantage of buying a higher model over a lower one are-? ie I took a 3150 and customized to have upgrades in various ways to the point of looking just like one of the "better" models so offhand it isn't obvious to me what the diff would be-? ie I can save $ this way but wonder what if anything I'm giving up.....

 

[Apollyon]

The only advantage I can see would be the time saved and avoiding the potential headaches of upgrading the system. For many OEM systems, cracking the case can void the warranty as well.

ETA: My previous post should have said "16X PCIe slot."

 

[bigred]

The only advantage I can see would be the time saved and avoiding the potential headaches of upgrading the system. For many OEM systems, cracking the case can void the warranty as well.

ETA: My previous post should have said "16X PCIe slot."

No I mean customizing as in online as part of the process of ordering it....

...but actually as I add em up it's turning out to be little diff if any, and in one case actually cost more to do it this way (?!). Thx

 

[Apollyon]

No I mean customizing as in online as part of the process of ordering it....

...but actually as I add em up it's turning out to be little diff if any, and in one case actually cost more to do it this way (?!). Thx

Sorry. Misunderstood what you meant, obviously.

You often have to be careful. At first glance all the specs may be identical, but the higher-end model may have a higher quality motherboard or other components that may not be apparent on the surface. It's often little things like the hard-drive on the higher-end system may have 16MB of cache whereas the one on the lower-cost system only has 8MB. The higher-end system might have better ram that can run at higher speeds and/or tighter timings, or the video card is a separate component vs integrated video (which uses system ram instead of the dedicatd video ram in a separate card).

There are all kinds of small little gotchas that can add up to make a big difference in performance.

 

[Errata]

Dude, thanks you've been a big help. Dude, I mean it, like, I'm all, dude.

Very mature response. Keep in mind here that you're the one who can't even figure out how to use a simple website designed to be idiot proof.

 

[bigred]

Very mature response.

As opposed to your initial response?

If you can't offer a worthwhile response to a sincere question, don't bother - or worse yet, get huffy when someone doesn't thank you for being an obnoxious punk.

 

[ZirconBlue]

I call shenanigans. I saw nothing even remotely close to that price for what I'm asking.

I have to settle for what I want from Dell.com (etc) too. I didn't see any "we'll build it to your specs" option. Did I miss it?

I don't think anyone's given you a clear answer on this. What you see when you initially look at the prices is sort of the "base model." You can customize any pc you want though (except, perhaps the refurbished ones they sell).

What you do is pick the model that's closest to what you want. Then, as you step through the order process, you are given the opportunity to change pretty much every item on the pc (adding or subtracting cost as you go). You can make changes and see what the total cost is, without actually submitting the order. And you can save the info and come back to it to order later.

As a completely made-up example, the particular model you pick might have 3 processor options in a drop-down menu. One will be the default, while a faster one might be +$25, or a slower one at -$25. You can make similar changes in RAM, video, sound, monitor, software, etc.

I hope this is more helpful for you.

 

[bigred]

I have since obtained some links but greatly appreciate the response. Extra thx to Apollyon for all the help as well.