Button Poll #2: Only those with normal cognitive capacity are given buttons.

[Reformed Offlian]

Those that are not too dumb to live will die just as well. That was my point.

"I am of the opinion that the blue pushers really are too dumb to live" is a very strange way of making the point: "Everybody dies eventually."

 

[Dutchman]

Correct. At a choice of 'ONLY Red survives' versus 'Everyone survives', we choose the latter. That's all.

Negative. I don't believe anyone is obligated to do anything, certainly not on my behalf.

We have two buttons to choose from. Red gives a highly undersirable result. Blue gives the optimal. So we choose Blue with no thought about others or obligations or begging for help lest the steamroller runs over us, or any of your other crackhead misdirections.

We know the game theory that Blue might be killed by the Red Voters (perfectly accurate), but we don't consider that a serious risk. Most people are not like that, we reason, and will vote Blue. So we vote Blue asking nothing of anyone else, and we win over and over.

Disagree. With no thought about others, Red gives a desirable result, I am perfectly safe. And Blue is potentially lethal. Blue only gives the optimal when you do think about others, and expect others to think about you.

 

[Dutchman]

"I am of the opinion that the blue pushers really are too dumb to live" is a very strange way of making the point: "Everybody dies eventually."

Yes. You are right. I might have worded that better

 

[Dutchman]

Let me try again: The Blue pushers, should they not get the required numbers, have really no-one else to blame but themselves. The were not forced in any way to put themselves in harms way.

 

[Thermal]

Disagree. With no thought about others, Red gives a desirable result, I am perfectly safe.

Thats what we are discussing. *You* are safe. Others are not. Those who push Blue are concerned about others, too.

And Blue is potentially lethal. Blue only gives the optimal when you do think about others,

...which we are banking on, and are right.

and expect others to think about you.

Negative. I expect no one to do anything for me or on my behalf. I expect others to vote Blue because of the gruesome result of a Red win. That's it. They need not consider me at all, nor do I ask them.to..

 

[Thermal]

Let me try again: The Blue pushers, should they not get the required numbers, have really no-one else to blame but themselves. The were not forced in any way to put themselves in harms way.

Right. And Blues think people generally are *not* ghouls and will not have a majority win in this universe. All polls show we are right.

 

[Dutchman]

Thats what we are discussing. *You* are safe. Others are not. Those who push Blue are concerned about others, too.

"with no thoughts about others". Your words, in the post that I quoted

 

[Thermal]

This is kinda wild.... Blue voters are explaining the reasoning of their choice and criticizing the shortcomings and results of voting Red.

Reds, on the other hand, are just repeating themselves and talking about crazy reconstructions of the Button choice, without addressing Blue's arguments at all.

 

[Thermal]

"with no thoughts about others". Your words, in the post that I quoted

...right. Reds give no thought about others. Agreed. And?

 

[Dutchman]

Right. And Blues think people generally are *not* ghouls and will not have a majority win in this universe. All polls show we are right.

Well, then I can just go ahead and push Red, as it will not matter anyway...

 

[Dutchman]

...right. Reds give no thought about others. Agreed. And?

You said

<snip>
We have two buttons to choose from. Red gives a highly undersirable result. Blue gives the optimal. So we choose Blue with no thought about others or obligations or begging for help lest the steamroller runs over us, or any of your other crackhead misdirections.
<more snip>

Not Reds give no thought about others. Choose Blue with no thought about others

 

[Dutchman]

This is kinda wild.... Blue voters are explaining the reasoning of their choice and criticizing the shortcomings and results of voting Red.

Reds, on the other hand, are just repeating themselves and talking about crazy reconstructions of the Button choice, without addressing Blue's arguments at all.

Then I will explain my reasoning for choosing Red: I will be perfectly safe. Everyone else can make the same choice, if they so desire.

ETA: And I do have thoughts for others, as in I advise them strongly to choose Red, like me

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Yes. You are right. I might have worded that better

No, I strongly suspect that you said exactly what you meant.

 

[Dutchman]

No, I strongly suspect that you said exactly what you meant.

I put what I meant in the post right after the one you quoted. And everyone still must die, which is a different matter, but still related to your remark of "deserving to die". Nobody deserves to die, we all still do.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

I put what I meant in the post right after the one you quoted. And everyone still must die, which is a different matter, but still related to your remark of "deserving to die". Nobody deserves to die, we all still do.

So, to clarify: you are *not* of the opinion that blue voters "really are too dumb to live", despite having typed those exact words earlier?

 

[Dutchman]

So, to clarify: you are *not* of the opinion that blue voters "really are too dumb to live", despite having typed those exact words earlier?

Yes. What I should have said, and have indeed said later on, is that they have no-one to blame but themselves.

 

[Lithrael]

Another true but useless set of labels would be to just label them both 'if everyone pushes THIS button and not the other one, nobody dies.'

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Yes. What I should have said, and have indeed said later on, is that they have no-one to blame but themselves.

That's the same thing as saying they deserve to die.

 

[Dutchman]

That's the same thing as saying they deserve to die.

No it's not

 

[Rolfe]

Agreed. And? You are also entirely content with the mass graves you voted to fill. It's all about you, and ◊◊◊◊ everyone else with a chainsaw. We get it.

Not content, but if huge numbers of people made such a crashingly unwise decision, well, sometimes one just has to let them do it.