"But Global Warming is a HOAX!!!"

[TurkeysGhost]

Whew, the high is only supposed to hit 99 (37C) in freedom units today here. Global warming is canceled! Right around July 5th was the last day it didn't hit 100.

Phoenix hit at least 110F for the 20th straight day yesterday, previous record was 18 straight days. 7 day forecast shows the high over 110 every day.

Entering the fun doom loop of warming, where parts of this country are going to become uninhabitable without air conditioning during the summer, which will only drive up fossil fuel use.

Not a rhetorical flourish to say uninhabitable, but literally at a temp/humidity that exceeds the human body's ability to regulate temperature through evaporative cooling. A wet bulb temperature around 35C is considered unsurvivable for even fit, heat adapted human beings, even in shade and a breeze, because sweating no longer cools the body.

For high humidity areas like the American South, temperatures around 95 F with 90% humidity will kill people who don't find air conditioning or other ways to cool themselves. People in the Phoenix desert might actually end up having the more survivable summers because the low humidity makes a big difference. A 110 F day with only 5% relative humidity is nowhere near the lethal wet bulb temperature of 35C (it's only 17.5 C). Assuming you can stay in the shade and drink enough water to keep you sweating, you're in much less danger of overheating in the desert than in these hot gulf states. https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/wet-bulb

Weeeeeeeeeeee!

 

[Hercules56]

An excellent resource I use a lot:

Skeptical Science: Global Warming & Climate Change Myths

I especially like how many articles have a choice between how scientifically detailed you want to get. The conversation in the comments seems well moderated also.

Have you seen any graphs showing our current avg temps being warmer than the Medeaval, Roman and Minoan warming periods? Were these all caused by the Milankovitch Cycles?

Yes, I understand that CO2 levels today are MUCH higher than back then, hence the extreme concern.

 

[Pixel42]

Another issue that deniers can grab on to is the various natural warming periods that have occurred over the last 3,000 years.

Minoan Warming Period, Roman Warming Period, Medeaval Warming Period. Deniers can point to these episodes and say "hey look!!!, temperatures were MUCH warmer centuries ago, caused by all natural processes, and the world didn't die!!!"

Of course CO2 levels were MUCH lower back then, so we have no idea how bad things will get THIS time.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1446&pictureid=13625[/qimg]

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factche...es-say-about-past-and-present-climate-change/

 

[Hercules56]

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factche...es-say-about-past-and-present-climate-change/

Crap!

"Conclusion
Greenland ice cores provide a high-quality high-resolution estimate of past changes in temperatures, allowing more precise comparisons with observed temperature records than most other climate proxies. While current temperatures are likely still below the highs in the early Holocene around 7,000 years ago, they are clearly higher than any temperatures experienced in Greenland over the past 2,000 years."

 

[newyorkguy]

An excellent resource I use a lot:
Skeptical Science: Global Warming & Climate Change Myths
I especially like how many articles have a choice between how scientifically detailed you want to get. The conversation in the comments seems well moderated also.

That is a great reference source. But...

I was very interested in No. 49:

• "It cooled mid-century"
• Mid-century cooling involved aerosols and is irrelevant for recent global warming.

[IMGW=400]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1474&pictureid=13626[/IMGW]

So can we, you know, set up giant aerosol cans around the globe? I mean really big ones. The biggest ever! Point 'em at the sky and... Would that work? Cause the scientists don't want to talk about it. But we're gonna look into it.

MAGA!!!​

 

[lobosrul5]

That is a great reference source. But...

I was very interested in No. 49:

• "It cooled mid-century"
• Mid-century cooling involved aerosols and is irrelevant for recent global warming.

[IMGW=400]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1474&pictureid=13626[/IMGW]

MAGA!!!​

There is actually a plan to try something like that...

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023...s pumping sun,back upwards, shading the earth.

(as its dated this year, its not a Trump plan)

Is it feasible? Search me.

 

[Hercules56]

There is actually a plan to try something like that...

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023...s pumping sun,back upwards, shading the earth.

(as its dated this year, its not a Trump plan)

Is it feasible? Search me.

They are worried about the unintended consequences. What if we cool the Earth too much???? What if we kill crops?

 

[dann]

#1. We keep talking about how this is the hottest its been since 1880. Who cares about 1880? Its an arbitrary number, totally unrelated to science or climate. Yes, its when we started measuring temps, but that has nothing to do with the Earth itself. It would be MUCH better if we talked about how the recent warming relates to and compares to average Earth temps over the last 2,000 or 10,000 years. At least those time frames have some meaning, as opposed to the last 150 years.

Does this work for you?!

In 2005, Newsweek was predicting open Arctic water within eighty-five years, the first time "since prehistory"." Keeling's graph had climbed all the way up to 380 ppm. If you started with 270 ppm in the 1850s, it made for a two hundred times speedier rise that any other period. Half a million years had passed since the air contained more carbon dioxide - there were now trees and robins in the Arctic.
The Parrot and the Igloo: Climate and the Science of Denial, p. 115

#2. We keep on talking about average Earth temperature rising 1 degree Celsius. To the average person, this means nothing. It means less than nothing, as their small brains will be like "so its gonna be 76 degrees instead of 75? Summer temps will go up to 95 instead of 94??? why should anyone care???" They don't get that Average Earth temps going up 1 degrees Celsius means that locally, temperatures could fluctuate much more dramatically, and weather could also and will fluctuate much more dramatically. This needs to be explained much better to our average guy.

It is being explained better to the average guy - and to everybody else. Whenever a Republican in Congress brings a snowball or comes up with a similar stunt, it is explained. Why do you think it isn't?!

Thoughts?

Maybe your deniers should read this about the Greenland GISP2 Ice Core graph. It includes graphs of "Greenland temperatures over the last 12,000 years" and of "Greenland temperatures over the last 2,000 years". And there is a third graph:

The figure below shows a 20-year LOWESS smoothed average of the models from 2000 through to 2100 added on to the end of the observational temperature data. Temperatures clearly exceed any experienced in Greenland during the Holocene by 2050 and are much warmer by 2100.
Greenland temperatures over the last 12,000 years - With observations and future climate model projections of the locations of the ice cores
Factcheck: What Greenland ice cores say about past and present climate change (CarbonBrief, March 5, 2019)

See the conclusion, too!

 

[lobosrul5]

Does this work for you?!






It is being explained better to the average guy - and to everybody else. Whenever a Republican in Congress finds and brings a snowball or comes up with a similar stunt, it is explained. Why do you think it isn't?!

Maybe your deniers should read this about the Greenland GISP2 Ice Core graph. It includes graphs of "Greenland temperatures over the last 12,000 years" and of "Greenland temperatures over the last 2,000 years". And there is a third graph:

You are trying to convince total morons, who metaphorically, have their fingers in their ears saying "nuh uh!", with logic, the scientific method, hard data etc... they'll just pull out that other chart that ended in 1855 and ignore the fact that it ended in 1855... they'll say its all fake because of some NWO BS... George Soros wants us all to go back to the stone age etc.

You are talking about these people... https://www.salon.com/2023/01/13/th...-a-gas-stove-ban-ignite-a-right-wing-culture/

 

[Hercules56]

You are trying to convince total morons, who metaphorically, have their fingers in their ears saying "nuh uh!", with logic, the scientific method, hard data etc... they'll just pull out that other chart that ended in 1855 and ignore the fact that it ended in 1855... they'll say its all fake because of some NWO BS... George Soros wants us all to go back to the stone age etc.

You are talking about these people... https://www.salon.com/2023/01/13/th...-a-gas-stove-ban-ignite-a-right-wing-culture/

Im looking at reliable and trusted temp data from Greenland, over the last 12,000 years, used to debunk conspiracy theorists. It shows avg temps over last 12,000 years were very often warmer than today, and a downward trend around 3,800 years ago that seemed to reverse course around 1950.

Devil's Advocate quetsion: when the Earth's temperatures were clearly higher between 4,000 years ago and 8,000 years ago, did all life on Earth perish? Seems lots of animals survived quite well. Human beings clearly survived. Was it comfortable? Probably not. But the Earth and life on Earth clearly made it through.

That's NOT to say we should do nothing to stop this. I dont want to have to struggle to survive. I dont want to move to Canada.

 

[dann]

Entering the fun doom loop of warming, where parts of this country are going to become uninhabitable without air conditioning during the summer, which will only drive up fossil fuel use.

... until you go wind and solar.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

... until you go wind and solar.

any day now...

 

[lobosrul5]

Im looking at reliable and trusted temp data from Greenland, over the last 12,000 years, used to debunk conspiracy theorists. It shows avg temps over last 12,000 years were very often warmer than today, and a downward trend around 3,800 years ago that seemed to reverse course around 1950.

Devil's Advocate quetsion: when the Earth's temperatures were clearly higher between 4,000 years ago and 8,000 years ago, did all life on Earth perish? Seems lots of animals survived quite well. Human beings clearly survived. Was it comfortable? Probably not. But the Earth and life on Earth clearly made it through.

That's NOT to say we should do nothing to stop this. I dont want to have to struggle to survive. I dont want to move to Canada.

? ... the chart you posted shows temps now much higher than at any point in the last 12,000 years. Of course, not all life is going to end. It almost certainly won't even cause mankind to become extinct. A few billion dead, and a quality of life massively below ours though. It might also effect the climate in Canada such that its more like Siberia... wait you say Siberia is cold! Actually, much of it gets surprisingly hot in the summer.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...rctic high,Nations' weather agency on Tuesday.

100 F has already been recorded above the arctic circle.

So, just going to Canada isn't the answer. It also won't mean that the ground up there is good for growing anything, not for a few generations anyway.

 

[Hercules56]

Entering the fun doom loop of warming, where parts of this country are going to become uninhabitable without air conditioning during the summer, which will only drive up fossil fuel use....

Maybe humans should not be trying to live in deserts, where they have to divert massive rivers to create huge dams so that they can have water to drink....and water their lawns.

Lawns!!!!!! People are stupid.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Maybe humans should not be trying to live in deserts, where they have to divert massive rivers to create huge dams so that they can have water to drink....and water their lawns.

Lawns!!!!!! People are stupid.

Did you read the rest of my comment? Heat waves are not going to be a desert only issue.

 

[dann]

Now train the cyclists to obey traffic laws.

Of course. And start early!

 

[lobosrul5]

Read the article:

That article is also 4 years old. I wonder what actual observations are compared to their RCP projections... I bet they've been exceeded if anything.

 

[Hercules56]

? ... the chart you posted shows temps now much higher than at any point in the last 12,000 years. Of course, not all life is going to end. It almost certainly won't even cause mankind to become extinct. A few billion dead, and a quality of life massively below ours though. It might also effect the climate in Canada such that its more like Siberia... wait you say Siberia is cold! Actually, much of it gets surprisingly hot in the summer.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...rctic high,Nations' weather agency on Tuesday.

100 F has already been recorded above the arctic circle.

So, just going to Canada isn't the answer. It also won't mean that the ground up there is good for growing anything, not for a few generations anyway.

Verkhoyansk, seems to be a VERY odd place, with regards to temperatures.

 

[lobosrul5]

Verkhoyansk, seems to be a VERY odd place, with regards to temperatures.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/07/10/canada-record-heat-wildfires-climate/

Is it? Canadian arctic recording temps of 99F.

 

[Hercules56]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/07/10/canada-record-heat-wildfires-climate/

Is it? Canadian arctic recording temps of 99F.

Yeah and north of that location it was a high of 54F. And south of there the high was 72.