Bush Vs. 12 year old

Wheezebucket said:
Hey steve, wanna hook me up with access to that free food and health car? That'd be sweet, thanks. I could use a little of that shelter too, actually. Here I been working my ass off, turns out I just don't have the right phone numbers! Who knew you could build a life off poorly run & under-funded homeless shelters and dumpster diving?

Yes, these things technically exist in America. No, they are not necessarily easy for all Americans to get a hold of. Some of us will die from a lack of any one of the things listed above, and not for lack of trying.
Click to expand...

Wheeze- A well-written post, I must admit.

I just say that since the creation of America, most of us have suffered without having our needs met, and have fallen through the net at some point in our lives. Look at our Seattle, with its overflow of homeless and hungry. We are perhaps the most progressive city in America, run completely by politicians sensitive to the needs of our diverse population. Yet still we suffer.
 
The Painter said:
From the article;



Come on, let’s be real. $72,000 per year is not poverty by any stretch.
Click to expand...

$72,000 a year in NJ with 4 kids IS close to poverty--certainly not enough to pay the $450 per person montly non-subsidized health premiums, I assure you--and those are the ones with the high deductibles.
 
The Painter said:
Duh! For incomes up to $72,000 to be included in this program, then it really has been expanded way way way beyond it's original intention. Maybe it should be vetoed. Here's a table on poverty.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/06poverty.shtml


A family of 4 it's $20,000 not $72,000 Keep the program with the people who really need it.
Click to expand...

So a family of four that makes $20,001 really doesn't need this program? Or maybe they just don't need health care coverage?

And why should this argument be about just New Jersey's standard, where the cost of living may be higher? Here in Texas, a family of four qualifies for CHIP when under $41,300 for the year. The people below the poverty threshold are eligible for Children's Medicaid, not CHIP. It's not about poverty anyway. It's about people who make too much for Medicaid and yet still can't afford health insurance for their children.

Furthermore, what is wrong with expanding the program?
 
Last edited:
boloboffin said:
Furthermore, what is wrong with expanding the program?
Click to expand...
I'd rather they allow health insurance as a deductible expense on federal income tax returns for those who buy their own, since those who get it through work don't have to declare it as income. This would make it easier for more people to afford it at the moderate income range w/o involving the government.
 
WildCat said:
I'd rather they allow health insurance as a deductible expense on federal income tax returns for those who buy their own, since those who get it through work don't have to declare it as income. This would make it easier for more people to afford it at the moderate income range w/o involving the government.
Click to expand...

Damn straight. I paid my own health insurance for two years. $175 a month, when I was making little the first year and nothing the second. Yet I couldn't even deduct it from my taxes. I should have just not had any, and gone to the emergency room whenever I needed something, and left the bill for the hospital to either write off or stick to the taxpayers.

It's stupid to have a system where it's more advantageous to the individual to be irresponsible with both their health and the taxpayer's money. The only thing that kept me from doing that was a sense of decency, and who has that anymore? Relying on people being decent when it's easier not to be is not a winning proposition in any sort of public policy. Might as well get rid of police and put everybody on the honor system not to commit crimes!
 
Great. Just great. Now the two parties are going to try to "out-sympathy" each other by rolling out handicapped children out in support of bills in cheap political stunts.

WONT ANYBODY THINK OF THE FLIPPER BABIES!!!
 
WildCat said:
I'd rather they allow health insurance as a deductible expense on federal income tax returns for those who buy their own, since those who get it through work don't have to declare it as income. This would make it easier for more people to afford it at the moderate income range w/o involving the government.
Click to expand...

Why do you consider this an either/or choice?
 
boloboffin said:
So a family of four that makes $20,001 really doesn't need this program? Or maybe they just don't need health care coverage?

And why should this argument be about just New Jersey's standard, where the cost of living may be higher? Here in Texas, a family of four qualifies for CHIP when under $41,300 for the year. The people below the poverty threshold are eligible for Children's Medicaid, not CHIP. It's not about poverty anyway. It's about people who make too much for Medicaid and yet still can't afford health insurance for their children.

Furthermore, what is wrong with expanding the program?
Click to expand...

You're right it's not about poverty level, but if you look at my post you will see I was responding to someone who said it was. This program is about falling into the gap. Between 20,000 at 40,000, and not even all of them. Expanding it to 72,000 is ridiculous.



If you read the article it was to expand it to 6 million children. If you go by this response;

$72,000 a year in NJ with 4 kids IS close to poverty
Click to expand...

This would include over 50% off the population of NJ.One state would eat up a lot it.

Furthermore, what is wrong with expanding the program?
Click to expand...
Fine, shall it be expanded to people making less than $250,000
 
strathmeyer said:
Please stop assuming we live in the same fantasy world you do.
Click to expand...

If only you did....

we wouldn't even need this thread.

Anyway, my comment was meant as a joke, since the thread was originally intended to be humorous. It's always interesting to see how some people are so easily offended.
 
The Painter said:
Fine, shall it be expanded to people making less than $250,000
Click to expand...

Why not? Why not expand eligibility? If people can afford better health insurance than the CHIP program, and if their health insurance payments are tax-deductible as has been suggested, then they can apply or not as they wish.

I don't find providing adequate health care coverage for any child ridiculous. Of course, I don't find providing adequate health care coverage for any human being ridiculous.
 
boloboffin said:
Why do you consider this an either/or choice?
Click to expand...
Notice I said at the moderate income level - this is preferable (IMHO) than the government being directly involved in the health insurance for families making $75,000 for example.
 
boloboffin said:
Why not? Why not expand eligibility? If people can afford better health insurance than the CHIP program, and if their health insurance payments are tax-deductible as has been suggested, then they can apply or not as they wish.

I don't find providing adequate health care coverage for any child ridiculous. Of course, I don't find providing adequate health care coverage for any human being ridiculous.
Click to expand...

You've just included the 98.5% of the population. You've turned the program into exactly what it is not supposed to be. You don't want it to be for people who need help, you want it for everyone. Even if they can afford it on their own.
 
madurobob said:
"The president doesn't have second thoughts'' - Bush press secretary Dana Perino

The hell you say!
Click to expand...

You have to have thoughts before you can have second thoughts.

Wheezebucket said:
Man, I'd get nagged a lot if it was that second one. Let's go with the Flinstones car...only with a floor...and an engine...and gas/brake pedals. Mostly I just want it to look like it's made out of rocks, ok?
Click to expand...

Bob Seger's already got a song for the ads!
 
If $72,000/yr is the max a family can earn in order to take advantage of this, how many of these families are going to be sub $72,000? All of them.

Children are resources. I see them as future payees into my social security. The sickly kids aren't very good earners.

I think that since this is a program initiated by the Dems (and liked by all), it is a good candidate for Bush's veto pen .....

Charlie (anything that makes Dems look good will be vetoed) Monoxide
 
The Painter said:
You've just included the 98.5% of the population. You've turned the program into exactly what it is not supposed to be. You don't want it to be for people who need help, you want it for everyone. Even if they can afford it on their own.
Click to expand...

I don't see the problem with including 100% of the under-18 population.

Capitalism is about competition, but there needs to be a level playing field or it doesn't work very well. We already provide free education until age 18, mostly because of that belief in the need for a level playing field. I don't see why free health care until age 18 is any different -- being healthy when you start out your working life seems like a prerequisite for having an equal shot at doing well.

Rich people who don't like the free education their kids are entitled to send their kids to private schools. Rich people who don't like the free basic health care their kids would get under a 100% coverage system would probably buy private health care too.

I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes for this, and I don't even have kids. Tho, I'd prefer to tax the rich (say, top 5%) to pay for it.
 
FenrisWolf said:
I don't see the problem with including 100% of the under-18 population.
(snip)

. Tho, I'd prefer to tax the rich (say, top 5%) to pay for it.
Click to expand...

Yeah no problem when someone else pays for it.

You have all convinced me that Bush should veto this. You are taking a good program to help uninsured children and turning it into socialized medicine, that don't fly. You all got greedy.
 
The Painter said:
You've just included the 98.5% of the population. You've turned the program into exactly what it is not supposed to be. You don't want it to be for people who need help, you want it for everyone. Even if they can afford it on their own.
Click to expand...

Calm down.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom