Bush endorses teaching "intelligent design."

[Upchurch]

Diane Rehm from NPR put the smack-down on ID advocate Richard Land on her show today. It should be available online at least by tomorrow, if not sooner.

I usually try to avoid her show because her voice grates on my nerves (which is petty, I admit), but I was driving my wife's car and didn't really have another good option. Her guest, ID proponent Richard Land, was making all the classic argumentative fallacies and Rehm and her other guest called him on it left and right. It was very satisfying.

eta: now that I actually read the above site, it'll be available about 1 PM EST.

 

[Ladewig]

Diane Rehm from NPR put the smack-down on ID advocate Richard Land on her show today. It should be available online at least by tomorrow, if not sooner.

I usually try to avoid her show because her voice grates on my nerves (which is petty, I admit), but I was driving my wife's car and didn't really have another good option. Her guest, ID proponent Richard Land, was making all the classic argumentative fallacies and Rehm and her other guest called him on it left and right. It was very satisfying.

eta: now that I actually read the above site, it'll be available about 1 PM EST.

Sirius radio listeners can hear her show on NPR Now from 10-noon EST and again from 9 p.m. - 11 p.m. EST.

 

[brookus]

I usually try to avoid her show because her voice grates on my nerves (which is petty, I admit)...

Wow, she does have an awful voice. The argument I got for ID was "visit discovery.org". I guess that's promoting the theory of "if it's on the Internet it must be true".

 

[Ipecac]

I usually try to avoid her show because her voice grates on my nerves (which is petty, I admit), but I was driving my wife's car and didn't really have another good option.

Diane Rehm sounds like she's, what, 900 years old?

 

[DavidJames]

Are you guys getting to that link today?

I'm not having any luck, either 404 or it just hangs.

edit to say nevermind, finally came up

 

[Upchurch]

Diane Rehm sounds like she's, what, 900 years old?

It's a medical condition that she occasionally has treatments for that make a vast improvement for a short period.

eta: and, yes. yes, she does.

quote:

---

Originally posted by brookus
The argument I got for ID was "visit discovery.org". I guess that's promoting the theory of "if it's on the Internet it must be true".

---

Yeah, he was not a very knowedgable advocate and did a lot of relying on (cherry-picked) authority.

 

[normdoering]

... The argument I got for ID was "visit discovery.org".

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vi...d=2764&program=News&callingPage=discoMainPage

...Discovery Institute opposes mandating the teaching of intelligent design, but it supports requiring students to know about scientific criticisms of Darwin's theory, which is the approach adopted by the science standards in Ohio, Minnesota, New Mexico, and currently under discussion in Kansas. Discovery Institute also supports the right of teachers to voluntarily discuss the scientific debate over intelligent design free from persecution or intimidation.

Except for the lie that there are valid scientific criticisms of Darwin's theory it almost sounds reasonable.

 

[Tony]

Sirius radio listeners can hear her show on NPR Now from 10-noon EST and again from 9 p.m. - 11 p.m. EST.

I'm a Sirius listener and I'll tune in at 8.

 

[delphi_ote]

Diane Rehm from NPR put the smack-down on ID advocate Richard Land on her show today. It should be available online at least by tomorrow, if not sooner.

I usually try to avoid her show because her voice grates on my nerves (which is petty, I admit), but I was driving my wife's car and didn't really have another good option. Her guest, ID proponent Richard Land, was making all the classic argumentative fallacies and Rehm and her other guest called him on it left and right. It was very satisfying.

eta: now that I actually read the above site, it'll be available about 1 PM EST.

Dear LORD that voice is annoying... but I'll try to tough it out. Thanks for the link!

ETA: "Lots of scientists... Behe... Dembski" Ha ha ha ha ha ha... wow. I actually had to pause the program to stop laughing at that. That alone made listening to this worth it.

 

[Upchurch]

Sir Fred Hoyle

Hoyle... argued for the universe being in a "steady state", with the continuous creation of new matter driving the expansion of the universe, rather than the universe beginning and expanding explosively in a "Big Bang". ...in the end the discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation led to the nearly unanimous acceptance by astronomers (Hoyle being one exception) of the Big Bang theory.

and

In his 1981/4 book Evolution from Space ..., he calculated that the chance of obtaining the required set of enzymes for even the simplest living cell was one in 10^40,000. Since the number of atoms in the known universe is infinitesimally tiny by comparison (10⁸⁰), he argued that even a whole universe full of primordial soup wouldn’t have a chance.

...Hoyle infamously compared the random emergence of even the simplest cell to the likelihood that "a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein."

Which would be quite convincing if the process he was comparing to was completely random.

eta: Sorry, I forgot to say: this is one of Richard Land's three scientific sources mentioned. On the Big Bang, which was in his field, he simply ignored the evidence that contradicts his "matter creation field". On chemical evolution, which wasn't in his field, he made invalid assumptions in his calculation of the probability.

 

[DavidJames]

[BWhich would be quite convincing if the process he was comparing to was completely random.[/B]

I managed to get though (it was painful) and it appeared to me to be a typical ID vs. Evolution debate. The EV guy got a majority of the speaking time, repeated the same things ad nauseum and when he did make a refutable claim (the probability one you mention) was not challenged. He mentioned the probability one at least twice without a single come back from the scientist.

The scientist did a nice job explaining what a theory was but the ID guy was allowed to repeat his mantra of comparing the "theory of ID" vs. the theory of Evolution without being challenged. Think Reagan's come back of "there you go again", do not let them get away with it.

Another poor showing for science.

 

[Upchurch]

"Lots of scientists... Behe... Dembski"

Thank you. For some reason, I couldn't pull those names out from what he said.

William A. Dembski and Michael J. Behe

Dembski sounds like a real nutter.

 

[Renfield]

He also called the president an SOB, and other stuff. A fightin' Demmycrat!

An endangered species these days. Howard Dean could be considered one, but he's the exception, and the other big democrats are turning against him.

I saw an interview with one of the dem party leaders where he was talking about how those negative comments probably hurt Hackett's chances. He might have won if he'd been a little nicer. Is it any wonder they are losing? Have they learned nothing from history?

 

[hammegk]

Except for the lie that there are valid scientific criticisms of Darwin's theory it almost sounds reasonable.

The Narrative (oops, I mean Theory} of Evolution is all boiler plate, for sure. Please define "species" for us, and put the last rivet in.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Upchurch]

quote:

---

Originally posted by hammegk
The Narrative (oops, I mean Theory} of Evolution is all boiler plate, for sure.

---

"for sure", huh? That's cute, hammy. You keep trying!

in the mean time, evidence?

 

[Kerberos]

The Narrative (oops, I mean Theory} of Evolution is all boiler plate, for sure. Please define "species" for us, and put the last rivet in.

Thanks in advance.

Dictionary.com is you friend.
ETA: And I believe the ofspring of a breding has to be able to survive and breed itself. The seperate species horses and donkeys can interbreed, but their ofspring is sterile.

 

[normdoering]

Please define "species" for us, and put the last rivet in.

You really don't know what a species is?

A species is a collection of organisms capable of interbreeding. That's it.

Things get fuzzy at the species boundary, however. Breeding a male donkey to a female horse results in a mule. Breeding a male horse to a female donkey produces a hinny. They are generally sterile offspring. So, horses and mules are two separate species because they've branched off of the tree of life and are now on different evolutionary paths.

Now do you believe in the theory of evolution?

 

[thaiboxerken]

The scientist in that debate was not very good at pointing out the fallacies of the preacher's arguments. Irreducible complexity, for example, is just another appeal to ignorance. It basically says "i don't know how this organism could've evolved, therefore it must be an intelligent designer."

Probablity of single-cell organism coming about it 10^40? Perhaps, but I doubt it. However, the probability of winning lottery is low as well yet with all the tickets out there, someone does eventually win.

I wonder if there could be a career market for a scientific debater, since scientists aren't very good at it.

 

[Silicon]

The point that follows yours Ken is that the odds against abiogenesis could be LITERALLY astronomical, but given the number of planets in the universe still be a certainty!

But see, their arguer was on purpose a non-scientist, so he could beg ignorance and refer you again to the "scientists" on his website.

He did make some howlers, though, like when he said the other guy needs to go back and read "Origin of Species" because Darwin talks about non-life becoming life in it.

What a fool.

 

[SezMe]

The Narrative (oops, I mean Theory} of Evolution is all boiler plate, for sure. Please define "species" for us, and put the last rivet in.

Thanks in advance.

Fundamentally, hammy, the theory of evolution does not depend on a strict definition of a "species." Mutation and differential success (the fundamental tenets of evolution) are not tied to any definition of "species".

WHAM. Damn, setting that final rivet feels so good.