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Burnt cars in destroyed garage - supposedly WTC parking complex

mrbaracuda

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So I came across this page which shows photographs of 'of the WTC destruction. More roasted cars are shown, and these have not been moved, but are pictured at the point of roasting – in the WTC parking complex'.

Has this been covered yet? I assume so, but I couldn't find any thread about it so far using words like 'parking lot' etc in my search.
 
I love the first comment.

the debunkers will say something about "the raging fires" or the "heat generated by the collapse".

How should we respond?

It really is a contest with them isnt it. Sad really.

TAM:)
 
A little more substance in your reply would be appreciated, T.A.M.!
(I know, coming from me this might sound weird at times. :D)
 
This is a classic case of truthers not wanting to consider any other explanation than the one they want to be true. Let's look at the possibilities. First of all, I assume these cars were in the parking garage underneath the WTC, so there was burning debris around and above them for a few weeks. With no ventilation, the radiant heat alone could have set off their fuel tanks. At the very least there would have been large quantities of petrol (sorry, gasoline, I'm English) vapour (sorry, vapor, ditto) in the air due to the heat, which could have flashed across from anything burning nearby. Ryan comments that "Also, we can safely rule out the overworked “bolus of jet fuel” diversion" without justification, a classic example of a truther trying not to say "I can't counter this argument so I'm going to ignore it".

But then, of course, since it's Ryan it must be thermite. He seems to think there was nanothermite placed in the parking garages to do... what? Burn a lot of cars to arouse suspicion? Because down there it can't have had anything to do with the collapses.

Of course, there were highly energetic materials in the parking garage, capable of burning away the non-metallic interiors of the cars, and breaking the glass in the windows to small fragments that would fall inside the cars and be invisible in these photographs. The material in question is gasoline, a highly energetic material with a low flashpoint. Ryan doesn't want to remember about that, because it doesn't support his fantasies. Note how he claims that everything non-metallic was "evaporated", rather than considering the possibility that it burned? Note how he invokes the pools of molten metal, conveniently forgetting that it's molten steel he wants to find to demonstrate there was thermite present, and he's already admitted that the steel didn't melt.

Put simply, this is same [rule10], different day. There's no need for research to debunk this sort of non-analysis; just read the page with your brain switched on, and it's obvious that the gas tanks of these cars caught fire in the heat under the rubble pile.

Dave
 
read the page with your brain switched on

Well, sentences like "A superthermite powder mixture, exploding and scorching as it goes, should be the highest priority root cause in any investigation. These photos alone make that case." make it extremely hard to maintain sanity and the will to have it switched on. ;)

Maybe I should clarify. My main question is: Are those even where they're allegedly are? I am not familiar with the 'parking complex of the WTC'. But thanks for the detailed answer, Dave Rogers. :)
 
Sad really. Examine the pictures.

In the first picture we see a gaping hole in the floor, but no mention is made of the breached wall and the debris pile outside. One would think that falling debris breached this part of the basement and caused a localized collapse.

In subsequent pictures we can see numerous burned out vehicles but note the the surrounding structures. Scorched cross members, intact columns, spots of burnt paint on the ceilings. Curiously, the sprinkler pipes, their tie downs and the larger pipes next to them (probably domestic water or sewer lines) also survived this massive "explosion". Certainly these would have melted as well, if such a catastrophic event took place?

It just keeps getting better and better with truthers.
 
I like the last bit of the iron workers quote

" He even said that there were spots that water had pooled up and was just bubbling like a pot of boiling water with molten metal underneath, like in the Nat/Geo movies of underwater volcanic lava flows.”
 
Is it possible that these photos are from the 1993 attack? It was a bomb set off in the parking stucture. There is no proof of who took thiese pictures or whenthey were taken.

The "dying iron worker" sounds like something from an urban legend.

First determine who took the pictures and when, then worry about what they really show.
 
Is it possible that these photos are from the 1993 attack? It was a bomb set off in the parking stucture. There is no proof of who took thiese pictures or whenthey were taken.

The "dying iron worker" sounds like something from an urban legend.

First determine who took the pictures and when, then worry about what they really show.

That's my approach and I am so far surprised it hasn't been discussed here before; if it indeed hasn't been. The bombing of '93 also came to mind, although as AJM8125 pointed out there is the debris pile outside and I am pretty sure the damage was contained to the inside in '93.
 
As a fire fighter, I see utterly nothing remarkable in the photos.

Powder thermite is a crock. It would not selectively burn the cars and not other metal structures nearby.

If there was water sitting on top of molten metal, it would be too hot for anyone to approach. The steam would get you before you got close enough to see what was going on. If it were standing on a concrete floor with molten metal beneath it, the heat would spread out over the entire area, and the water would spall the concrete out over the hot spots.

Nothing in that post makes the least bit of sense.
 
Hi

"But the tires are gone (wheels remain), the headlights and taillights are gone, the glass is gone (not broken - gone), bumpers are gone, the fabric of the seats is gone, and even the steering wheel and dashboard is gone where this is visible."

All the plastic and rubber and fabric stuff is gone, which would happen in any sizable automobile fire, what with them being all melt-ey and burst-ey-into-flame-ey like, however, in the last picture, there's some jagged, angular brown stuff sticking out of the edge of the driver's side second window from the parts of the vehicle designed to hold automotive glazing.

Grab the photo, blow it up to 100% and look for yourself.

BrokenGlassInWindow.jpg


It's broken glass. No: The glass isn't, "gone."

"It’s clear these cars were not impacted by falling, burning debris."

Pictures 1, 2, and 3 all show cars crushed by falling debris, including other cars.

How is it clear that those cars weren't burning already?

"He even said that there were spots that water had pooled up and was just bubbling like a pot of boiling water with molten metal underneath, like in the Nat/Geo movies of underwater volcanic lava flows.”

What in little pink bunny rabbits?!?!?

Water, when it boils, stays at about 212° F, 100° C, no matter how hot the stuff underneath it is, because the heat of transformation sucks up a lot of the heat in the state change from liquid to gaseous state. Add lots more heat and all you get is lots more steam; The the water stays at the boiling temperature.

The only way to change that is to put on a lot of pressure, like, say, an ocean, and a functionally inexhaustible source of heat, like, say, a planet's worth of magma.

Any self-respecting pool of water sitting on top of a pool of molten metal would either:
1) Boil away from the heat, and fairly quickly because of the temperature, or
2) Quench the molten metal.

You can't have both a pool of water and a pool of molten metal at the same time, Right?

Sheesh.

....

I'm going to a Truther presentation next Monday to hand out copies of the Popular Mechanics answer to the Truthers: "Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report" (reprinted with permission) in hopes I can save a few rational, thinking human beings.

What was it Jonathan Swift said? "You can't reason someone out of an opinion that he didn't reason himself into in the first place," or something like that.

I'm still going to try.

[ETA] Oh - hey - and - at what temperature does glass melt, so that it can be, "gone?"
2700° to 4200° F (1500° to 2300° C), depending on composition, according to Wikipedia.

At what temperature does aluminum, the most common material of modern automobiles, melt?
1220.58° F (660.32° C) same source

At what temperature does steel melt? It's complicated:

420px-Steel_pd.svg.png

(same source) ...but less than 1500° C.

Any fire hot enough, from any source, to dispose of glass would also dispose of the aluminum and steel of the cars, right??
[/ETA]
 
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A little more substance in your reply would be appreciated, T.A.M.!
(I know, coming from me this might sound weird at times. :D)

I wish I could comply, but until I see something from da twoof worthy of my time and effort, quick quips etc...is about all I have the want or time for.

Sorry. Cheers.

TAM:)
 
I don't recall ever seeing a totally burned-out car with glass left in the windows.

I do recall seeing melted glass in our steel-drum trash incinerator when I was a kid.
 
Front and back car glass is a hardened laminate, that is two layers of hardened glass with a layer of glue between them. Not sure about the rest.
Impact or temperature will scatter glass.
The hardening will make it scatter into small squares, the glue will normally keep it together instead of cutting up the driver.
High temperature will melt the glue, maybe even burn it.

(my electricians apprenticeship was at a factory making duble glaced windows)
 

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